HI Damon
Hope your hol went well.
LiPo batteries are intolerant of overcharge and under charge. Both events cause irreversible chemical changes internally and in extreme cases can lead to failure, often quite spectacular. Ignoring the advice will result in loss of capacity so it's best to follow the advice.
The technology is advancing rapidly and the newer high capacity batteries advise a minimum discharge voltage of 3.3 volts per cell and some even higher. All the batteries I have purchased recently have this information printed on the sleeve together with the max charging current and voltage plus advice in max temperatures when charging.
I would not advise using other than a proper LiPo charger with a balance lead connected to prevent individual cells exceeding their specifications. Some of tghe cheaper imports on E-bay are copies but they can charge above the recommended levels. Some can be calibrated if you have the equipment but there are suppliers in the UK who sell the genuine articles nad they will not damage your batteries (or you!)

The Mtronic Tio charger was introduced to cater for LiPo batteries and will prevent overdischarge so provides the level of safety nor present in their earlier chargers. I have not used a Tio but looking at the manual it auto sets for LiPo cut off. You will have to ask Mtronik what the cut off voltage is as the Manual is unclear.

There is a 12v max rating on their ESCs but they are ok with fully charged SLA'S and 3 cell LiPos. (11.1v nominal)

Regardless of the type of battery and ESC you are using this was not causing the problem you were experiencing. if the battery works the motor and the ESC sets up correctly (both leds illuminated) the system should work.

I suggest you set up outside your model and make sure the Rudder servo is working correctly. Unplug the rudder servo and plug the ESC into the rudder servo socket just vacated. Using the same stick on the Tx that worked the rudder see if the ESC now works. if it does I suggest you plug the rudder servo into the channel you were using for the ESC and see if the throttle stick now works the rudder and the rudder stick still works the ESC.
If the ESC does not work in the previously working rudder channel this would indicate a possible fault in the ESC or the motor (possibly a short causing excess current and the ESC going into shut down mode).
If the ESC works but the rudder does not then you either have a faulty Rx (orTx) or are not using the correct channel. if you perform an arc with all the sticks and operate the 5th channel switch this may identify the problem.
Please let me know how you progress.
Dave

I suspect someone has their wires crossed!!!!

The reason your ESC is not specified for LIPOS is the "cut off voltage".

if you discharge a LIPO battery below a certain voltage it will be damaged, so LIPO specified ESC cut off before damage occurs.

Other than that electricity is electricity!!!!

http://www.wannarace.co.uk/page_2207335.html

"%u2022Never allow the pack to be discharged below 3.0V per cell; preferably use an ESC with LiPo low voltage safety cut-off. Over discharging causes permanent damage to the cell.
%u2022When one or more cells are below 3.0V after use, don't try to recharge them "

Dave
Hey M8 latest news...I got an electrician out we then rang MTroniks, neither of the gents I'd previously spoken to were there so I spoke to a third individual I can't remember his name. I explained to him everything that has occurred, MSC not worked 8 times, I've changed everything concerned with propulsion of the craft. I'd tested the motor with nothing connected to bar the lipo battery, then a 12,v battery & finally a 3000 MAH Battery results were the first two the motor worked, the MAH wasn't enough power. The gent then stated I am using the wrong MSC! Hold on my reply I've explained every time I rang MTroniks that I'm using lipo batteries, why haven't I been informed this before? He couldn't answer this question, but he's going to send one of these MSC I've had a look & its an MTroniks TIO Marine 50 & the price for one of these is £59:99.
Dave I've read the leaflet of the viper marine 20 No where does it say not for use with lipo & on the info re TIO doesn't say for lipo's so if it doesn't have this information How are we supposed to know about these differences "Mind reading?"
I've added a pic of the TIO for you to ponder Dave
Hope all is well
Damon

Damon

Send me a PM with a land line number and a time you will be around and I can call you to try and talk you through some simple checks.

HI Damon
If possible you need to take your model and electronics to a model shop or local club and ask for help. We appear to have tested pretty well everything and it all seems to be working apart from the connection from the ESC to the motor.
Is it possible there is a break in the wire from to the motor, or perhaps a fuse? As you have the motor out you could connect everthing up outside the model ans see if it works.
Also are you certain your Tx/Rx are working correctly on all channels? As the problem appears over different models and the radio is a common factor it is worth considering.
I hope you find some local help and manage to get your model working
Dave

Hey Dave
The Right lever is steering & Left should be power. Put both motor's in clamp connected 12v to em boy did they go with & without those dehydrator things attached...back to draw board, sorry Dave & everybody offered advice. it has to be me you know coz this same thing with the ESC has happened to every boat bar one, I've taken her almost to bit & back, but there's no difference except different motor, but it's a marine brushless motor I brought em from Howes Models

HI Damon
Have you identified which sticks correspond to the numbers on your Rx? Until you identify which channel number on the Rx corresponds to the stick you have chosen on your Tx you will not be able to test the ESC further.
I believe we have established that your Rx and Esc are receiving as both leds on the Esc flash then stay steady. Your rudder servo works so it should be simple to try each channel in turn and see which stick controls each channel. Hopefully each stick will control 2 channels one for horizontal and one for vertical stick movement.
Moving your chosen throttle stick will not control the ESC unless it is plugged into the correct channel on the Rx
Please keep me posted with your progress
Dave

If you are getting a lot of vibration from starting the motor, try looking at the U/J. if its one of the plastic one's they have been known in the past to be out of ballance, turn the plastic part end to end, this may help, or change the U/J completley

The acceleration is left hand lever. I mount mind on small wooden frame for no reason other than piece of mind. I wouldn't use 11.1 in a boat probably power will shear motor out of hull. I use 4 MAX Purple Power 7.4-5000 mAh & that is more than enough power for what I use

Under normal usages you shouldn't need to put rubber mounts on an electric motor.

By their nature they are balanced and produce thrust with more than one impulse per revolution.

if an electric motor setup is giving a lot of vibration start looking for the cause!

Many thanks - I'll use them on the rudder servo but not for the engine mount (lifts the motor too high).

I checked further and throttle is function 1
even if you have changed mode 1 remains the throttle so you can use fail safe etc.

So try moving your ESC to 1 and ( motor disconnected) move throttle leaver on TX if leds change red/green red only green only you will know your RX and TX are "talking" to your ESC then if that works you can connect the motor and see if it drives ok.

The picture shows the planet designated functions on RX

I looked at your pictures and a thought occurred .


which stick is your throttle ?

right or left?

you have your receiver wired such that your connected to the rudder and elevator functions.

which should put throttle right and rudder left.

red and green flashing on ESC indicates neutral found so it should be a working unit.
Switch everything off and move your ESC connection to channel 1 on your RX then switch on and try again pls .

HI Saltysnogbad

The use of rubber grommets when mounting your servos was a requirement for models using IC engines where the vibration could interfere with the control especially in a model aircraft.

Unless you are running a very fast race boat it is probably not necessary but many do use the grommets as they allow slight movement if the push rods become tight at full travel. That said they won't do any harm if you do choose to make use.
Dave

HI Damon
Had a good time at Haydock still recovering from the two days.

Glad to hear you are progressing. I'm assuming all motors worked with direct connections to the battery? You did use the wires that go to the ESC?

As the Older type ESC flashed red and green then it was correctly set up and receiving a signal from the Rx. Now I have looked at the connection to your Rx and it would appear you have connected to channel 4 or 5. This could be the cause of your lack of control. I usually use channels 1 and 2 with my Planet.

May I suggest you use the rudder servo to identify which channel on the RX is controlled by each stick on the Tx. You will be using the ESC to provide power so will have to change this to a previously tested channel to test the channel it was on. When you identify the channel relating to the stick on The Tx you want to use for the ESC, make sure you plug the ESC into this channel and plug the rudder servo back into its channel.
When you switch on the red green lights should flash. advancing the throttle stick all one way will illuminate the red or green light, indicating the ESC is working. if the motor is not then there is a fault in the wiring. As the motor worked with a direct connection to the battery there should be enough power being supplied. if the battery is faulty I would expect the ESC to reset with both light flashing and the rudder servo not to work, plus the Rx LED to extinguish.

If you have a spare motor you could try wiring this up to see if it works. if you have a volt meter I would check the battery voltage and the voltage coming out of the ESC at full stick.

Let me know how you progress
Cheers
Dave

As a complete novice to model boat building and electronics may I, please, say how helpful I have found all this guidance and particularly the photos which are more informative than the instruction manuals and books?
May I also be permitted one (undoubtedly stupid) question? I notice the motor appears to be mounted directly onto the wooden platform. is it unnecessary, therefor, to use rubber grommets? For mounting servos it their use appears to be recommended.

Hey Dave
sorry its taken me sometime to answer but I wanted to test both boats to see whether or not results were different or anything else

MTB: Disconnected wiring & distributors from the motor cleaned everything up, also charged the battery. Clean solder used cleanest I've ever done 😀 Wiring correctly throughout the boat. Turned TM on Then RX on afterwards the ESC flashed alternate Red & Green couple of seconds both light remained constant, is that right or should just the green light remain on?
Anyway once completed rudder worked as per normal R lever up & down, but no power side to side on R lever or L lever, Same as before ESC has the button, it's the one they changed.

S Boat: Removed everything bar red black wires, tested these motor worked. After cleaning used flux & distributors off the motor then made sure wiring correct as the diagrams in both T ronics leaflets. This ESC was the new sort it taught itself all I had to do was move lever up=accl down=brake & then left & right turning Once this was completed Turned the TM on followed RX First tried the rudder fine same as before....wait for it no power Wiring completed as the diagrams in the 2x T ronic leaflets I have Dave I am sorry but same result in two separate boats
Anyway Dave how's your hols coming along this week, having fun?
Damon

Thank you so much Dave. I'm going to try what you've suggested & I'll let you know the result
Damon

HI Damon
Are you sure your capacitors are not shorting out the motor? You should really sleeve bare wires with heat shrink to prevent this . Same goes for the Deans plugs, especially if you are connecting a Lipo.

I can't see the connection to your rx from the Esc very clearly, it looks like you are short on lead length and as a result the connection is under some duress which may be making a bad connection.

First of all disconnect the blue and yellow wires and see if the motor runs freely with a direct connection to a battery. if you use the LiPos to test please put a fuse in tyhe positive line near to the battery. I suggest you try a 5amp initially to limit the sparks if there is a short, if you need to use a fuse greater than 10amps I would suspect your motor or the RFI connections.

Whilst you have the motor disconnected you can test the ESC, RX and servo. Just make sure the blue and yellow wires are not touching ( some insulation tape on each wire would be good) then switch on the Tx attach the battery and switch on the ESC. After a couple of seconds the Rx should show an orange light and the ESC should flash the green and red leds and then stop with both illuminated. Your servo should respond to the stick.
Pushing the stick you have selected for the ESC should result in either the green or red light illuminating at full stick and the other colour illuminating at the opposite stick position.
It's possible that you have the ESC plugged into another channel to your selected stick so do try all the sticks to identify the correct one. Maybe the Rx has a fault on the throttle channel. if you swop the ESC with the servo connection to the Rx your throttle stick should work the rudder servo. I always have a problem with selecting the correct channel and the manual is not always helpful.
I'm at Haydock during the day so if you post your findings I will look tomorrow night..
Dave

Dave & peeps, I've taken some shots from the MTB for you, the S boat is exactly the same, I just couldn't get as clear a photograph as these. You will see I hope that the only change is the connection to the Lipo battery, instead of that old style I've soldered Deans connection, these are the latest & the best. I hope that you will see that the wiring I think is completed correctly...I hope anyway
Thanks a lot
Damon


PS Your see two batteries, don't worry can only use one as a time, the two will help ballast okay

did you have multiple esc(s) connected to a receiver? if yes did you disconnect all but one of the red leads to the receiver?

if you don't do that potentially your going to fry something.

HI Dave
I haven't any photographs but I take what I can tomorrow, I will say though the wiring I did was exactly shown in the instruction booklet in with the ESC, The only difference was I changed the battery connection, The old connection was changed to the new Deans plug which the connection is much stronger than before
Thanks for your support Dave

HI Damon
You have been unlucky if you had 6 faulty ESCs. As with all electronics there will be the occasional glitch but your experience is unusual.
It would help if you could post some pics of your boats set up including pics of all the electrical connections inclouding the battery and motor.
The fact that you have two models where neither ESC is functional could be due to a simple wiring error copied to both models.

As a start you should disconnect each motor from the ESC and apply battery power direct to each motor to check that they both work and that the prop shaft and coupling are free to rotate. There should be minimal resistance in the drive train. The prop should be locked to the shaft with a lock nut and a washer between the lock nut and shaft. Same at the other end if a screwed connection, with the lock nut locked to the coupling. There should be minimal play between the shaft bearing and the washers.

I would check that you can control your rudder servo from the channel you are using for the ESC. Some Rx have a battery connection for a separate battery, your ESC will provide power thro this but will have no signal control.

Assuming all is OK it's time to check the ESC. Assuming you are using the built in BEC in your ESC you need to connect the ESC and rudder servo to your receiver. Connect the Yellow and Blue wires to your motor ( may be different colours, but not the red and black). Check all is correct then connect the red to battery and the black to battery -. Switch on your TX and centralise all sticks and trims and finally switch on the ESC.

When your system has stabilised you should have control of the rudder. During the set up process the ESC will have exhibityed two flashing lights, red and green. if you ESC control stick is central both should be alight. Pushing the stick forward should illuminate the green light at full travel with the red illuminating at full stick travel in the opposite direction. The motor should rotate in both directions.

For the old type of ESC, it's possible that the ESC has lost its settings and need to be recalibrated to your TX. Switch off the ESC for a couple of seconds then switch back on ( make sure all TX controls are centralised) while the two leds are flashing on the ESC press the small button on the ESC, the green led should illuminate, push the TX ESC channel stick to the full forward position, the red led will illuminate, push the stick to full reverse position and return to neutral, when both leds should illuminate. This should result in the motor responding to the stick movement.

For the new type you do need to have your ESC throttle stick centralised and the TX switched on before you switch on the ESC. I have known some ESCs to be fussy about the way the TX is configured regarding Fwd and Rev and changing the setting may solve the problem. You can correct motor rotation by swoping over the motor leads.

If you post pics I may be able to give further advice.
Dave