Aerokits 46" twin screw brushless conversion

Started by pmdevlin

72 updates 6 likes 185 comments

Aerokits 46"Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

Time to have some fun. I had a couple of days off work coming up, kids in school, missus in work, weather forecast looked ok, so fancied the first big thrash on a big lake.

Now the boat is pretty waterproof, spray rails had been finished, wheelhouse is done, just the cabin roofs to do. I had the original ply ones, so used them, and taped up any other areas that might get wet.

I have an eagletree data logger, which will calculate motor rpm, watts, amp draw, voltage, mah of batteries, and most Importantly to me, gps speed, so with that installed, its off to a big lake, Gautby road in Birkenhead. This lake has access to all 4 sides, and is what I consider to be traditional model boat lake, rectangular. it is the home of birkenhead model boat club, they race Ic fast boats, and yatchs here.

Testing consisted of using a number of different sized props, as I did at New Brighton previously, but no guess work this time, I have an lcd screen fitted to the boat so I can see the readings, and when home, it can be viewed in far more detail and downloaded to the PC. The fastest props are not always the best, its a balance between speed, heat, and runtime. I tested all "x" props, 50mm, 52.5mm and 55mm.

here we have screen dumps of an actual run, using X 52.5 props, max speed was 21mph, since then, on the next day, which was a bit calmer, I achieved 22.33 mph, and only 38.29 amps, on X 55mm props. The information was to be used with Simon from propshop, he could then analyse it and produce some counter rotaing props that would hopefully perform better
4 comments
  1. AlanP
    Lieutenant
    Mmmm, that's about as far as I got Shaun, but I do have a GPS to go in the boats.
    That's me, me moving with the times and living on the edge 😁

    Alan
  2. Flack
    Warrant Officer
    Thanks for the explanation,I wonder if I am a bit old in the tooth for all this technology stuff, I'm generally quite happy if it works when I switch it on. That said each to his own, that's the fun bit of modelling you can do as much or as little as you want.

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

so the boat has run, and achieved a massive 23mph, almost as fast as my Huntsman. So its waaaayyyy over scale speed, but good fun. I will back off a bit with the size of the props, as this will reduce the speed, and reduce the amp draw on the batteries, which will give a longer run time.
I did however have a problem, which was similar with my 3 foot boat when that was first refurbed.
It was explained to me like this, when turning, the rear of the boat wants to rise, making the front almost submarine. its due to the rudders, the area is too big, and when applied on fast turns, acts like a brake.
I decided to lose some of the blade area, I wasnt sure how this would affect things, so had to take a bit off the leading and trailing edge, and keep trying it until I was happy with it. it was a bit of a play off, not enough rudder blade area, it prob would not turn, hence doing it in little bites. They ended up like this
4 comments
  1. Dave M
    Vice Admiral
    HI Paul
    In my experience reducing the prop size with a brushless motor has the opposite effect. I usually use a Wattmeter to ensure I keep within the rated power of the motor by adjusting the prop accordingly. Too small a prop can allow a brushless motor to over rev so its best to try and get this right.
    One of the main benefits of brushless is you are able to use scale 3 bladed brass props. You mentioned Simon at Prop shop in a previous post - did he produce props to suit your model?
    Totally agree re rudder control. On a fast craft at speed very small movement will have a large effect. Are your rudders that length to align with the depth of the props?
    With that sort of speed you could add wings and it would probably take off! Very Impressive. 👍
  2. pmdevlin
    Lieutenant
    Got a good story about the props but we are not there yet! Thanks for reply it's nice to have a conversation. I have ended up with Simon making something new!! He used the data I had to work something out for me but that's later on!
    Paul

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

THE MAST!

I wanted something that would take the odd knock from my heavy hands, and it had to fold down like the real thing, or it would not fit in that wonderful box all those posts ago! 😀

Decide to make from brass (more weight!) instead of the original plan of plastic rod etc. HS93 helped me with the design, I just copied it, and again, wanted it to attach securely, not glued on, so it does not fall off!
Using brass bar, with the milling machine, I can make a channel section that the legs will fit into. These are tapped to accept 12ba bolts to secure the mast legs, and by slackening off, the mast will be able to fold forward. On the completed pic, you can see where the mast is standing the bases now have small bolts into them, for attachment to the roof.
The mast body was soft soldered together, which took ages. I used small metal bulldog clips around the area to be solderd to transfer the heat away, and stop the other soldered joints heating up and unsoldering themselves. I didnt use a solder Iron or gun, but one of those gas torch things. it seems pretty solid, and was difficult to get square. I used a drawing on a wood block, and pinned the parts where I wanted them, a few attempts and it seems ok.

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

dont know how true this is, but I love this story. Ages ago, I was talking to someone via a yahoo groups site. He said the strange shape of the mast legs was due to the fact the RAF supplied Vosper with old aircraft propeller blades, as they were made from a certain type of wood. Looking at close up pics, they do resemble a propeller blade shape, nice story, dont know how true though! 😀
I used shop bought brass strip, and spent ages with a file trying to get a similar shape 😰
1 comment
  1. Dave M
    Vice Admiral
    Looking at the drawing there is more than a passing resemblance to a propeller. I will bear this in mind when I start refurbishing my hull. 👍
    Excellent build blog, so much detail shared for the benefit of all Fireboat modellers. 😀

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

Ive now had another play, its time to take all the gear back out again, inspect for anything unusal that should not be happening, and paint, boring!
My paint process for the hull, reclean, sand with a block using 800grit, its already primered, paint the red, 2 or 3 coats, flat with 600 then 800 wet/dry, clean off, another 2 coats of red, wet/dry detail sanding, then clear laquer, two coats, flat again same way down to 800 grit wet/dry, then using a cutting compound polish buff it up, and then a less abrasive polish, then a creamy polish to finish, hoping that I have not gone through the paint.
Same process with the black, but for some reason the black is always harder to do, and as the hull sides are more noticeable it has to be good. Hardest part is getting the flippin line straight. it does not go up at the front, its dead straight, but almost Impossible to do> 😟
It is red, not pink, like it looks in the pics, no particular attention to paint codes here, red is red, and black is black, but I did want a nice deep finish, so probably did more coats than was necessary 😉
2 comments
  1. Flack
    Warrant Officer
    Looking really good 😁 - is that just using the car touch up cans from places like Halfords? I like the makeshift spray booth 👍
  2. pmdevlin
    Lieutenant
    I had the BS631 grey mixed, used plasticote for the red (as I already had it), and bought the black from a local motor parts place, I dont really like halfrauds, its expensive, and does not like mixing brands, in the experience I have had.

    The yellow colour, prior to paint, was "Halfrauds" filler primer, it had no filler properties at all, and why do the cans stiop working before all the paint has gone, not enough propellant! 👎

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

so left it alone for 10 days or so, in the warm, for the red, and black, to harden.

For the top side, a little trick up my sleeve that I did with my 3 footer. I have a copy of original Vosper paint plans, the grey is BS631, it was painted in cerrux none slip finish, so no point getting a nice gloss finish, as it didnt have this, well on the deck anyway, So how to create the none slip finish, sand mixed with talc, or whatever other concoction people have used...no, stick sandpaper on the deck... no, its easy, spray something like this on the deck, varying coats, till you get the finish you want (I practised on scrap first) I think it was about 4 coats, then just paint over it, simples! 😀

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

That textured paint was from B & Q, it gives rough finish, and is just right. I masked off a thin strip around the hull, and any fitttings that where on, and painted with BS631 that I had mixed in an aerosol at a car paint suppliers

Finally feels like we are getting somewhere, but still a long way to go 😯

All paintwork has been done with rattle cans, a big delay was caused by plasticote paint, I vowed I would not touch it again after numerous problems on my last build, I tried it again, and had a load of problems, I will never use it again! it was going all crazed no matter how I applied it, and how long it was between coats, I even emailed them! wasted a lot of money, and time 👎
3 comments
  1. pmdevlin
    Lieutenant
    HI Dave, I wondered what was going on with the plasticote, the cabin roofs where a real bad job, I ended up having to make the larger centre one twice, it was primed real nice, cleaned, allowed to harden, painted in warm conditions, as soon as the top coat went on, it looked like I had painted it with brake fluid!> 😟 No end of stripping back would cure it, I threw the flippin can at the wall, it bounced back, and chipped the hull!!!> 😟 > 😟 😭

    what a fool I am!, but I did feel better though! 😀
  2. Dave M
    Vice Admiral
    HI Paul
    You were lucky I had to strip the whole hull back. I abandoned the build (3yrs ago) but will get back to it at some time. I'll probably restore the Aerokits 46" Fireboat first, much less detail required. 😀

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

right then, skipping forward, the front cabin and centre cabin roofs are made from plastic card, 3mm, I have tried to save weight, but am failing miserably when all the brass fittings go on, wait till the tow hook appears, over engineered is an understatement! 😛
Funnels, somewhere I recall reading a question regarding these, and the fact on various pics they face diffeent ways, its my understanding they can be turned, to suit conditions, hence they do face different ways. Mine where originally much longer and I cut to required length.I picked them up from the Haydock show. I wanted to secure them to the roof in a way my clumsy hands didnt knock them off, so filled them with resin, then using a small drill drilled the resin, and then with self tappers screwed to the roof. I made small discs to resemble the bases, as I had previously cut them shorter.

Grab rails are stainless rod, and the stanchions (if that is what they are called!) are stainless, and screwed to the roof, model train suppliers have all this sort of thing, I searched everywhere for rc boat suppliers to have these and came up with a blank, other than poor quality white metal.

The clear view was real good, and inspirational! until I used the wrong cyno and it fogged! Cenre is a dress making pin, outer ring was turned on a lathe, the actual clear view was a piece of perspex, and using the lathe tailstock off centre I cut the disc with a scriber, I was made up figuring this out myself, then destroyed it with the wrong flippn glue, and of course once on with cyno, its no coming off, and I was not making amd painting another centre window frame and window 😟 Another job to redo when it ever gets a refurb!!
3 comments
  1. BOATSHED
    Captain
    HI bad luck with the glue, 😯 .
    Deluxe Materials do a
    Glue 'n' Glaze,
    On the bottle it says for making crystal clear window's & bonding canopies & most plastics.
    I got some from Hobbies stores in Raveningham in
    Norfolk. it is quite good. 😊
    Hope this may be of some help.

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

ready for some more? well for the 3 followers anyway! 😀

here are the two pics that I used time and time again, zooming in, studying, over and over for that "extra detail"
This is the version I am modelling, its one of the first versions of the mk2, notice the eyebrows over the windows, the window frames on the wheelhouse, the monitors, nothing like the ones commercially available and used by pretty much everyone (including me on my 3 footer) no breeches connection, the more I looked, the more I saw little things specific to this version, pre refit.
Most, if not pretty much all of the pictures and info that is being used to reproduce the boat was pre handover to the RAF. The boat was still under test with Vosper, I will cover this later, but check out the crew on all those pics and videos, none are wearing any RAF or any sort of military clothing, they are Vosper staff.
Back to the pics, this might be a bit contentious, but do the funnels look like they are bright red on the inside, no, is it likely the RAF painted the monitors bright red, not really in my opinion, so when I was building this boat I had my spin on it, to make it a bit individual, could be right, I dont know! On closer observation, I am convinced the cabin sides are white, not grey, but I was not that brave for that one! I remember ages ago being shown some paint plans (I am sure they are on this forum somewhere) that the cabin sides where a lighter grey than the deck, again, I was not brave enought to do that as it would appear to be a poor paint job. My 3 footer is also pictured, just so you know I did follow the crowd with that one! 😉
8 comments
  1. AlanP
    Lieutenant
    You can't get much further North West than me, we only got rid of the stage coach last week, now we have to use donkeys to get about. 😁

    Alan
  2. Flack
    Warrant Officer
    Didn't know you had progressed that much Alan, thought you were still on donkeys 😁

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Aerokits 46" Fireboat twin screw brushless conversion

so now you know its early "93" being modelled. some more info, the ensign on the main mast pre handover to the RAF would not have flown the RAF roundal, (until commissioned to the RAF) the ensigns tended to be "bastardised" with company logos. I contacted Vosper about this, and also spoke to Mike Alsop who runs scale flags, he has actually been on one of the Fireboats! 👍 and gave me real good info, especially about the monitors. 3 Different versions where used, he could not definitley confirm, but said it was unlikely they were red, probably actually unpainted.
Back to the ensign, my spin, Mike made me silk flags, with the Vosper logo on. Vosper said back then the logo would "probably" have been on any ensign, and not Vosper Thornycroft as it became, just Vosper. Also, a blue/white flag was flown, back then it meant "vessel undergoing tests and may deviate from a true course" Another clue to the fact the pics we have, in most cases, where pre handover to RAF. Today I think that flag has something to do with divers in the water.
I could be way off the mark, but I like the story, and there is possibly some credability to it?
The silk flags look nice, and hang a bit better than the stiff cardboard looking ones, over time I think they will weather quite nicely.
check the pics, see what you think, the civvy crew, and no roundal on the ensign..............
7 comments
  1. shavings
    Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class
    As one of the three keep going. Can't wait to see the fire monitors keep trying to make my mind up which type to make but am busy at the moment getting my head round brushless motors and esc's
    Roger

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