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    RAF RTTL 2762 E
    by RHBaker πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ ( Lieutenant Commander)
    πŸ“£










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    7 Posts 44 Comments 0 Photos 64 Likes
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762E
    2 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Should have explained, these are outrunner motors and used them because of the higher torque.
    Have also used air cooled outrunner brushless motors and never experienced overheating. They are slightly noisier, as expected.
    Toying with a future build of about 17”length of a RN Scimitar FTB. It will require 2 small motors, has anybody any experience of any light, outrunner brushless of this type of size? Weight will be an issue so air cooled is anticipated.
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Tried her yesterday for the first "shake down" before her maiden voyage. That is why there is no mast or other accessories, removed to avoid breakage.
    Model runs 2 x Turnigy 3520 1700kv brushless, watercooled outrunner motors with 3 S LiPo power.
    She is rather overweight, but there is more than enough power to comfortably plane.
    Being twin screw easily controlled, did not detect any "dig-in" tendancies.
    Had to curtail the runs due to a water leak from a coolant hose. Model is 34" long
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    1 month ago by Skydive130 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Looks superb on the water!
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Glad to see a bit of history recorded and achieved, you have done a great job.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by Northernflotsam ( Able Seaman)
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    Very nice.. looks good
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by Newby7 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Nice. Looks good on the water.
    Rick
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Vroom vroom Rowen πŸ‘
    She looks reeeeel nice on the wet stuff πŸ˜‰
    😎
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Looks good Rowen, rides nicely by the looks of itπŸ‘

    JB
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Until the ice melts on Lake Ontario, cannot submit any pictures of the maiden voyage. Weather is improving, hopefully not too long now.
    In the meantime, here is the finished model, still on the bench. Will post sailing pictures in due course.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by Northernflotsam ( Able Seaman)
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    long time since Ive seen Lake Ontario back in UK use to live in Oakville in the 90s
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by swanee ( Master Seaman)
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    When my uncle Bob was stationed in Malaya with the RAF he along with some other officers used to blag an outing on an RTTL. once they got a few miles out it was finished with engines and everyone would spend the day fishing or sunbathing. All in the name of Queen and country of course.😎
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Hi Rowen, another great looking model, looking forward to the video etc, once you get some 'soft' water back.

    JB
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by mturpin013 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Hi RH, another boating success, what a great model, we will look forward to seeing some action pictures.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Hi Roger, good to see you back.
    The lines of both the RTTL Mk 11 and the Brave Borderer are similar, after all they were both Vosper products.
    As I built the RTTL often noticed how much the hulls looked the same.
    The big advantage of the RTTL Mk 2 is they were eventually all twin screw, unlike the Brave. This is a major saving on complexity, cost, weight and general aggravation. I think it a very doable project.
    If you decide to go further, can send the RTTL General arrangement drawings.
    Can you send a note with your E mail address please? Think already have it but want to be sure.
    Cheers
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by Rogal118 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Wow you have been busy, hope the water is sailable soon.very nice clean lines not as much deck clutter as the borderer.is the hull similar to the borderer Rowen, as I've got my original i made last year then went and bought a glass fibre hull for my now nearly finished borderer,I was toying with the idea of building a rttl 2755 as the contrast with the white hull and superstructure would compliment the brave border. One if done something like the enclosed photos with the sun shade would make for an interesting model! Thoughts please?. Regards Roger.

    http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/2755/
    πŸ˜‰πŸ˜Ž
    http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/2755/
    πŸ”—
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Another fine job Rowen πŸ‘
    Looking forward to The Big Melt! 😁
    Cheers, Doug 😎
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    The making and fitting of the deck, planking and cabin all followed established procedures and went smoothly. The only major challenge was the mast.
    The picture of 2757 shows the last surviving RTTL (in original form) on display outside the R.A.F. museum near London. It illustrates the unusually complex mast. Ruminated long on how best to build it.
    Had an unusual stroke of genius and made up a small wooden stand to the same dimensions as the base fittings of the mast. The developing mast structure could then be easily gyrated through various angles and dangles to gain access for soldering the main brass structure and fitting the styrene sections that make up the interstitial members.
    This approach has the added attraction of making the mast as a single unit, which can be made readily detachable. Transport and storage become so much easier. The original mast could be collapsed, but the bracketry to do that looked difficult to reproduce successfully at small scale without machining resources.
    To make the mast detachable, made up a clevis bracket under each mast leg on the cabin roof. The clevis mates with a hole at the end of the mast legs. Fitted a tapered pin into the clevis through the hole to hold the mast, along with a β€œkeeper” bracket to ensure the pin remains in place.
    The mast contains a radar scanner and the mast lights. To disconnect the wiring easily, fitted a servo style connector plug at the mast base. By disconnecting this plug and removing the pins the mast can be easily removed. Not quite as original, however, a good use of modelers β€œlicense”. The original wiring ran up the starboard mast leg, so copied it. My wiring is slightly more obvious, but is considerably simpler and much easier to service than passing it though a mast leg.
    Decided to feed the electrical power to the superstructure by using springs on the hull mating with brass plates on the underside of the superstructure. The spring & plates conduct the current. Using this idea allows removal of the superstructure without disconnecting wires.
    This works nicely on an installation with relatively few circuits. The main RC controlled on/off switch is the hull. The secondary circuits in the superstructure are controlled by small switches, so can select the radar and /or lights as desired.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    It is! Also easier to sand when smooth though.
    Have toyed with making another RTTL with double diagonal planking, just like the original. Perhaps one day!
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by mturpin013 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Its funny how we modelers try our best to achieve a perfectly smooth surface on our boat hulls, but in reality the hulls of real boats are far from perfect, it show very clearly on 2757 the angle planking towards the stern where the surface is still in tact
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Using 2762 E. This was the original aluminium hull so felt, as the GF surface would be smooth, it would replicate this vessel more closely.
    I did simplify the aerial arrangement to try to make it less vulnerable to damage. Found on another vessel that everytime an aerial was reattached the repair became more obvious.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Great job but I am not sure that 2762 ever had that arrangement. When I was at Mountbatten in 196/62 the boat still had its aluminium hull showing, I think it had its timber outer skin added at that time. I was involved in the initial fitting the UHF radio to the RTTL at the time, when I finished my National Service in May 1962 it had only been fitted to one RTTL. Later pictures of these launches show that the UHF system was fitted to them and the mast was somewhat modified to fit the twin multi pole aerials and stays. Some pics of 2762 show it was fitted at some later time. Your new mast system also does not include the VHF aerial, it is possible later in the life of the RTTL the VHF system was removed and fitted with the UHF system because that was the intention for aircraft.

    What number are you going to give it 2762E or 2772E ?
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by robbob ( Admiral)
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    Unfortunately they are still outside and subjected to the ravages of the British weather. When I last saw them up close about two years ago they looked in a bit of a sorry state, certainly the hulls were but I expect the topsides to be in the same condition too ☹️.
    Rob
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Went there once some years ago, fascinating museam.
    As an Engineer was enthralled by the Napier Sabre and Bristol Centarus engine cutaways. Marvels of complexity!
    The launches were stored outside and were deteriorating, there was a story about them going inside. Perhaps that has been done.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by robbob ( Admiral)
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    Hi Rowen.
    I live very close to the Hendon museum and have visited it on many occasions over the years. In fact I attended the final closure of Hendon Aerodrome back in the late 60's and saw the last aircraft landing there (a Blackburn Beverly) after which the whole area was redeveloped for housing with only some historic buildings and hangers of the original aerodrome remaining for posterity.
    The museum was built as part of that redevelopment, and it has had a bit of a makeover in recent years and it's probably about time I paid a new visit, and take my grandchildren too.
    I'll also make sure to inspect the two RAF boats outside with renewed interest.
    Rob.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Very nice work Rowen, obviously not an easy structure to make. Clever way you've made it detachable!

    JB
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    "Anyway, I am not changing it!
    Too many hours of fiddly work to contemplate another set of changes."
    Roger that Commander πŸ‘
    😎
    PS "a vertical centre shaft that might have rotated the radar"
    More likely power and signal cable, the rotation motor is right underneath the antenna.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    It could have changed and some pictures are quite deceptive. On some there appears to be a vertical centre shaft that might have rotated the radar.
    I based my interpretation on various pictures of 2753, 2752, 2757 and 2762/72.
    Will admit that I did simplfy the antennas as often find they are very fragile and break off when the model is sailed.
    Anyway, I am not changing it!
    Too many hours of fiddly work to contemplate another set of changes.
    Thanks for your endorsement of my efforts, always appreciated.
    Best
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Hi Rowen,
    seems to have changed from time to time on '57, mast and antennas.
    Have a shufti here;
    http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/2757/
    On the other hand 2762E was def a tripod, but with different antennas!
    http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/2762E/
    Perm any two from four and I guess you'll be about right πŸ˜‰
    Whatever, good work as usual Rowen πŸ‘
    Cheers, Doug 😎
    http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/2757/
    πŸ”—
    http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/2762E/
    πŸ”—
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Hi Doug , Quite deceptive but it is a tripod mast. Examined several photos that confirm it
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Very nice work Rowen πŸ‘
    But (and I hate to say it πŸ€”) aren't you missing a back leg on the mast?
    Or is what looks like a second back leg on 2757 actually a central tube running up to the radar?
    Cheers, Doug 😎
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    The next problem was both Turnigy ESCs burnt out! Not simultaneously, but in quick succession. Have no idea why. They were well protected by fuses and generously sized for the motors and screws.
    Anyway, HobbyKing refunded the purchase. Obtained two more ESCs, but this time from Banggood. Had several premature Turnigy failures last year; time to try something else.
    The Banggood ones worked straight out of the box. They do not require programming and operate simply in Fwds or reverse; no beeps, punch mode, throttle setting or other complications.
    Just as well as my Turnigy ESC programming card had, by now, also failed!
    These ESCs are basic and do not have a low voltage alarm or cut-off. When using LI-Po batteries it is essential one be added to protect LiPo cells from inadvertent full discharge damage.
    Once these ESCs were installed was immediately impressed at the improvement in control. They could be fully modulated from the Tx lever. The Turnigy ones were much coarser and the hull could not be safely docked, it can now.
    The drivetrain trials and tribulations were resolved, the model sailed well throughout several runs. It is not as fast as the Brave Borderer, but with only two screws it is lighter and easier to control. It also planes easily.
    Although the original vessel had twin screws that rotated in the same direction, decided to cheat and install contra-rotating screws. Experience with the Brave B. steering shows it is sensitive and felt this might make the model more predictable and also reduce any β€œdigging in” tendency on turns.
    Quite enjoy running a bare hull as it is not susceptible to minor damage. All marks can be cleaned off during the build programme.
    Parked the model for the onset of the winter, when will complete it. The pictures show the final tests in Hamilton Harbour.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Interesting. The ones I bought are watercooled, so there is no heating issue.
    They do not look as substauntial as the Turnigy but they do work well.
    Fitted three into my Brave Borderer and have no issues at all.
    Good luck anyway with them.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    3 months ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Sorry about the failure of your ESC's lucky you got your money back.

    I do not know much about them, but I have lost a couple for no apparent reason.

    I have bought 3 off Aliexpess and run them just with a bare motor and they seem to heat up quite quickly so when at last I finish my HSL I will try and arrange some cooling for them, the heat sinks do not look very substantial.
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Purchased, about this time last year, a glass fibre hull from MTBHulls. Have used their products before and been very pleased with them. Prefer to use GF hulls on these faster models are they are so robust.
    Proceeded through the Spring and Summer to fit the twin-screw brushless drivetrain, so it could be thoroughly tested before the deck was installed. Have found, through bitter experience, this is the easiest way to commission a brushless motor installation. It allows much better access to adjust or replace components. My caution proved well founded!
    Obviously, running on open water without a deck runs the risk of the model filling and sinking. To address this, fitted inside the hull old plastic water bottles and some air-filled sealed plastic bags usually used for protecting fragile shipments. Had earlier calculated the buoyancy given by these items, so it did exceed the hull weight.
    On the first runs, found the Turnigy water cooled brushless motors leaked water heavily. Possibly exacerbated by the pump circulated water-cooling system. This is evidently a well-known problem and even described on YouTube!
    Fortunately, easily cured by applying sealant to the area around where the wires emerge. Access was too limited to do this in situ, so removal and bench repair was the easiest approach
    To be continued
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    I seem to have been able to get back to the start but also have the Build as a document. Problem is you need both the Build doc and the pictures on the blog to get the full story.
    If there is any particular area you are interested in let me know and can see what I have.
    Unfortunately have been through a couple of computers since the story started and hope everything transferred properly.
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    3 months ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks very much for the info.

    I have gone back a long way on your Brave Borderer saga but I cannot get back to the start. I notice this with my first build logs. I assume this is due to the system memory size or perhaps things are still in the old Fireboat site I expect someone out there knows the answer.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Look good, would have been useful six months ago! Think have gleaned most of the details now from other drawings or the web.
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    These were the Turnigy 3520 1700kv type. Never took any pictures as the repair is quite simple.
    The water comes up the wiring holes and is thrown out by the outrunner body rotation.

    The is a good video on U tube of somebody actually dismantling a motor to effect a repair.
    Others just use silicone, whch is what I did. It works fine.
    Advised HK, but never bothered to claim as the repair was simple and cheap.

    Have always used a pump, possibly redundant as a scoop might work just as well.
    With a pump have no concerns with the cooling. Only a cheap fish tank one, costs about 7$.
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by mturpin013 ( Rear Admiral)
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    "Turnigy water cooled brushless motors leaked" I wasn't aware this could be a problem, where exactly do they leak? a picture please.
    why was it necessary to have a pumped system, wouldn't a prop forced system suffice.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by JOHN ( Warrant Officer)
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    hi there whilst going through some old computer files; I came across these 2 scans which may be useful to anyone who is refurbishing or building an RAF - RTTL.

    John
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Should have added , good luck with build
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    The shaft is fully enclosed in a brass tube. There is another brass sleeve that allows the prop shaft tube to slide into the hull. Find this simplifies the shaft alignment. My Brave Borderer blog explains the rational.
    The prop bracket is a home made sleeve where the shaft is soldered in and at the open end is a small top hat nylon bush.
    Props are from Cornwall Model boats and are Raboesch 162 style.
    Think you are wise to go with single prop. The triple arrangement is complex!
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762
    4 months ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    I really liked the look of prop and shaft installation. I shall throw away my cheap installation plans on the HSL 100, that at present lies untouched for the last 8 months on my lounge floor and make something more impressive like your drive system.

    From the picture it looks like the prop shaft threads through a brass tube in the hull and then to the stern support bracket/bearing. With a bit of the rotating shaft exposed to the water is this correct.

    I like the look of your prop, where did you get it ?

    Although the HSL 100 had 3 Sea Lions to push it along I am taking the simple route of one motor and one prop shaft. You have given me and the thought that it will not be so cold in my garage soon, the inspiration to get on with my build.
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    πŸ“ RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Decided to build a model of an RAF Rescue and Target Towing launch (RTTL) as my next project.
    Spent much of the winter and Covid lockdown period working on this 1:24 scale model. As the build closely follows my earlier Brave Borderer project, will only describe significant differences or areas of interest.
    The original vessel was designed and built by Vosper in the U.K. for the Royal Air Force in the early 1950s.This Mk 2 RTTL version, was eventually powered by 2 x Rolls-Royce Sea Griffon engines (the Griffon, although a similar style engine to the Merlin, was not a development of it).
    The one I chose to model was 2762E. This originally had an aluminium plated hull and was built for experimental purposes to evaluate this feature. The β€œE” in the pennant number depicts β€œExperimental”. The R.A.F then realized it already had a 2762 vessel, one captured from the Germans! She was renumbered as 2772E.
    In service it was found the aluminium sheathing corroded quickly in the salt water. She was then resheathed in double planked mahogany, just like her sisters. The pennant number then also became plain 2772.
    In the original guise this hull was both lighter and had a smoother surface finish than usual, so was capable of over 50 knots. The standard vessel topped out at around 47 knots.
    Planned to use a glass fibre hull. The smoother surface of GF would more closely replicate this particular vessel and would thus give an ideal opportunity to capture a unique period in her life. Also wanted to capture a version with the low engine room hatch, although 2772 was later converted to the raised glazed version.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    2 months ago by Gt108 ( Leading Seaman)
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    I find that brushless outrunners far better than inrunners as no water cooling issues and leakage issues. They are well cooled by air as entire motor spins allowing cooling vanes to give cooling needed. Also lots more torque than similar sized inrunner.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    I can remember 2762E from my time at Mount Batten ( 1961 to 1962 ) mainly because of the E suffix. I think from memory, its a long time ago now, that it spent all its time out of the water and possibly is when it had the timber cladding added. At the time I did not realize that it was a prototype its only since I became interested in this site, as like many others and was drawn here when restoring my Fire Boat.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Works fine and looks great. That planking is very attractive. Pity to paint over it!
    Rowen
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by JOHN ( Warrant Officer)
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    hi there

    Regarding a smooth hull for the RTTL Launch - when I built mine - I double diagonally planked the hull. For the inner planking I used obechi strips; at 45 degrees to the keel. The outer planking was 4mm wide x 0.5 thick mahogany strip in the opposite direction. Then I smoothed it off and applied 3 coatings of Z-Poxy finishing. Then with rubbing down between coats - then just standard Humbrol enamel paint. I also used 2 Vision motors to drive 30 mm scale props - they rotated in the same direction - powered by 7.2 volt batteries.

    I put 2 pics of the hull under construction. I have also put a 3rd pic on which should be a video (fingers crossed it works).

    John
    video 1558266007
    ▢️
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by Dickymint ( Recruit)
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    My father was stationed at List on Sylt in the '50's when the RAF ordered 5 96' boats to be built by a German shipyard. These were numbered D2762 to D2766 when they entered service hence the 2762E number problem. Interesting boats with Maybach diesels, but they just didn't stir the senses like the 68' launches!
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Hi Roger,
    Doubt a raw Doncaster is any rawer that a cold and snowy Ancaster! Been inside all day catching up on unfinished boat projects.
    I think you will find going to Brushless and LI-Po is well worth the trouble when building fast launches.
    The power density is much better than anything else and brushless do convert it into noise and speed quite well!
    Once you get closer to the project drop me a line and can give the benefit of the lessons I have learnt.
    Should be worth a round of drinks next time we can get to Yorkshire!
    Take care and good luck
    Rowen
    ce o. The power
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    πŸ’¬ Re: RAF RTTL 2762 E
    4 months ago by Rogal118 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Good evening from a raw Doncaster
    Well Rowan you certainly know how to put the cat among the pigeons. I've been wondering for 8 months now what to do with the original hull I made for the brave borderer, at the time of making I couldn't get my head around the fibre glassing, so left to one side and chose the easy way out and bought a grp hull.
    So always on the search for my next project maybe now is the time to go lipo and out runners with this type and I get to use the mothballed brave hull, once I've got the "Orca" nearly finished.
    Once again thanks for your inspiration
    Regards Roger
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