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A Super Rapier?
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About this boat
I always thought that the Rapier had a much more modern hull design than its superstructure, and is perhaps why I always considered the Rapier to be a bit of an “odd” looking model?
When I was cutting some new replacement plywood cabin sides for the Rapier 1, I made a pattern for a much more “modern” looking superstructure that would suit the Rapier hull shape better.
I actually cut a pair of cabin sides out to this new shape, but in the end I simply replaced the damaged sides with a pair of original shaped parts.
As I restore Rapier 2, I will try-out some of the styling ideas on it to see how it would look and work.
I have already cut the bulkheads and keel to make an all new boat rather than modifying an existing Rapier, so I will build this model and learn what works as I try some of the ideas out on Rapier 2.
Hopefully I can come up with something that matches the superstructure to the hull shape better than the Rapier does.
Bob.
When I was cutting some new replacement plywood cabin sides for the Rapier 1, I made a pattern for a much more “modern” looking superstructure that would suit the Rapier hull shape better.
I actually cut a pair of cabin sides out to this new shape, but in the end I simply replaced the damaged sides with a pair of original shaped parts.
As I restore Rapier 2, I will try-out some of the styling ideas on it to see how it would look and work.
I have already cut the bulkheads and keel to make an all new boat rather than modifying an existing Rapier, so I will build this model and learn what works as I try some of the ideas out on Rapier 2.
Hopefully I can come up with something that matches the superstructure to the hull shape better than the Rapier does.
Bob.
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Some possible alternative superstructure design clues that could be considered for a Super Rapier came with these ideas that came from the Project 3 teams combined thoughts some 6 years or so ago .
At that time we were looking for a slightly shorter version of the Rapier (but bigger than the Stiletto) .
What remained the same was the superb hull form, although in this instance it was reduced in length slightly from the 39” length to being closer to 34” - not much different, but different enough and with a rather nice sloped transom that may suite the Super Rapier too?
The Super Rapier superstructure that I have drawn-up is quite dramatic and was drawn up as I was restoring Rapier 1 during the Covid time period.
This profile is further away from the original Rapier design than the Project 3 updates, but they are a very helpful reference.
The open cockpit is something that is being considered for use on the Rapier 2 rebuild that is already underway at the moment, but not for the Super Rapier.
In short, it is very difficult to stray too far away from the original when the brief retains the wheelhouse as being a desirable style feature.
With this in mind, the construction will include the cabin sides as shown in this original template and various thoughts and ideas to make it “different” - but better suited to the superb LesRo hull design.
Various detail changes that I have in mind will be tried and tested along the way to see what works and looks best.
Bob.
We got a little distracted with our interest in the excellent Solent Spear, but Chris has now started a new thread for this future project and so this one can return to the Super Rapier.
Bob.
Bob.
As we have most of the hull already it would be easy enough to produce the drawings for the stern and the superstructure to fit the hull.
Ideally I'd need to get a hull but could get the ball rolling by using the drawings for the timber hulled version. They don't need to be dead on anyway because if built in ply etc. they will be made to fit.
Need to start a new thread on this!
Hi Chris,
A framework like this could be inserted into the Huntsman 31 hull and notched into the revised transom shape to make it extra strong.
Bob.
Thinking more about your 3D printed insert for the transom to give the correct revised angle and shape etc, I think I could achieve this quite simple by inserting a 1/2” plywood transom quite easily and have the following benefits.
The plywood “plug” would be easy to cut and fit and would give good solid support to the hull sides once the transom has been cut-off.
The plywood ply could have formers added to it to form the correct curvature (much like the Swordsman transom construction).
The plywood insert could be notched to accept the deck stringers etc to add to the strength and integrity of the build.
Plywood bonds very well into glass fibre so there would be no unknown glueing problems. I am working on a 3D printed Conquerer r/c tank at the moment and super-glue is the only thing I have found that can stick it.
The cut-away glade fibre transom piece could even be used as a “wrap” (perhaps) if you wanted to keep a full glass fibre exterior?
Bob.
Unfortunately I do not have a 3D printing facility, but I could make an insert from 1/2” plywood that would do the same job and support the open rear section of the hull after the transom had been chopped-off.
There is no doubt that the Solent Spear would be such a nice model to build, own, and drive, that it could easily promote itself to the front of any current building queue.
Bob.
As regards the Solent Spear it would be my preference to use a fibreglass hull, as it would be nice to use the same material as the full-sized and have the chines and strakes moulded in. The superstructure could be timber of course.
But modifying the transom area will be a challenge. It could be done in timber I suppose and skimmed with P38 or maybe Plasticard?
But whilst washing up and looking out the kitchen window I've just had a flash of inspiration! Why not 3D print it and graft it onto the stern. This would be precise, strong and have the swim platform incorporated.
Thoughts?
I've already added another, the Christina, to the list, along with the water-jet and outboard builds. I'm not going to start them until I've done some more on the Faireys otherwise I'll never get them finished!
I'll start on the builds as we go into winter and have at least two of them on the go!
It is always good when any new design idea promotes such good discussions about other interesting projects (both future and past) that we enjoy musing over together.
If only we had more time - we could make them all!
Meanwhile, my original dilemma about which Super Rapier to build remains.
Chris has made such a good job of his stretched Stiletto / slightly shrunken Rapier drawings that the choice about which one to work on first remains as big a problem to decide on as it ever was.
Both are Super Rapiers in their own way, and they are not especially different in size either, but as the few inches added to the Sprite have shown, those few extra inches make a bigger difference to the overall size of the model than could be fairly anticipated.
Another reason for considering Chris’s design first is that I really like working from his drawings as his small attention to detail (such as his integrated rudder mount in the keel shape) all contribute to making an enjoyable build that fits together very nicely.
Both options have their strong points, and I have already cut the cabin sides for my version Super Rapier…..and I have a doner Rapier kit to copy all the other parts from and to sell-on for somebody else to enjoy afterwards.
Not an easy choice and I will take another good look at Chris’s drawings when I get home next, but I can see both models quietly making progress in the background as like Chris, I enjoy having more than one project “on the go” at the same time!
Bob.
If we had plans available to build from, I have to admit that I would even prefer it to my LesRo Fisherman that I have taken so long to find!
……and with the Fairey Marine heritage, it is most likely to be a good performer too !
Bob.
As for modifying a glass fibre hull, or starting from scratch and building in wood, I wouldn't like to guess at which build route would be the easiest.
Will
Thank you
Will
Your knowledgable contributions are always welcome and give us something to look forward to
Bob.
To be fair, my input is minimal really, @ChrisF has done the most work, with his designing/drawing up of the different designs/ideas, and also the more in depth part of drawing up plans to be able to actually make some of these ideas a reality.
One day I hope to not just be a bystander with these wonderful ideas and designs, and actually build at least one boat myself.
The down side to that is I will be badgering the hell out of you both for ideas and advice, so i'm sorry in advance.
Will
I've had a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment building my Faireys, some of which are unique and which satisfied my desire to build different things but still related to my main interest but it has also been very satisfying being involved in these other things which certainly add to the enjoyment and interest.
I had decided to build the Sprite Plus with the outboard but looking at the Sports Fisherman again I had my doubts again. But thinking about it you are right in that it's probably a bit too sleek and posh for an outboard. Without the forward cabin and a more utilitarian look then yes. So Sprite Plus it is!
Solent Spear.
The Solent Spear is still the best looking “Sport Fisherman” boatI have ever seen, and it would make a fabulous r/c model power boat.
We did discuss that this design could possibly be drawn to fit onto one of the existing glass fibre Huntsman 31 hulls, and although the hull would need a little attention (modification) in the transom area, it could be made into a very attractive looking model boat.
I still have two of these g/f hulls available for this build if the idea should ever get resurrected, and it would certainly be a very appealing project.
Building a Solent Spear from wood in the more conventional way would also make a good project as the end result would be more than worth the effort, and this could be the preferred construction - even if it would mean making a wooden model of a glass fibre original.
Bob.
Project 3.
I think you have summarised the development of the various Project 3 model proposals and drawings very well.
Naturally, I blame Will for all the extra work these variants have caused you (and he is not here to defend himself!), but the end result has produced a trio of excellent designs that are all based on the same derived variant of the Rapier hull - and we know that is a superb performance hull, so they all have a very good pedigree.
I did stop work on the Super Rapier to build one of these Project 3 designs first……and that may still happen as I have enjoyed building the Sprite Plus from your drawings and that has gone together very nicely.
Your Sprite Plus Outboard drawings look so “right” and the punt shaped bows will give a “different” looking model to enjoy driving on our various clubs waters.
I hope you build it as it really does look like it could easily be the best variant of the Sprite family.
Bob.
Discussions on another thread about building one of the modern Faireys and the like, Solent Spear etc., provided the inspiration for an open top version called Sports 35. which personally I think really shows off the hull design best - though I really like the others as well.
I know what you are saying about an outboard on the back but lots of Sports Fisherman boats do use them which is why I went for that version. Totally agree if that comment was for the updated Stiletto/Rapier (Bayonet) though with it's aft cabin. I keep flip-flopping between the modified Sports Fisherman and the Sprite Plus for the outboard!
Hi Chris,
Your second drawing down for the “Scimitar” looks really nice and is the one that I thought I liked the best, but the two modern looking designs with the wheelhouse also looked better than the original Rapier ever did.
I personally think that the Sprite Plus Outboard conversion that you have drawn suites the outboard motor better than the Sports Fisherman design.
If you have your picture of your Sprite Plus Outboard to add to this reply, I think it would confirm that is your best option.
The Sports Fisherman design really does look like a sophisticated modern power boat and having an outboard bolted on the back would spoil it. IMHO.
The Project 3 open rear cockpit idea on a wheelhouse design is something that I have considered using on Rapier 2 as I think the extended rear cabin roof that I have created over the wheelhouse on that version would look better with an open rear cockpit/deck, but I have still yet to decide on that and make a final decision…..the saw awaits….
The sloping rear transom is also a feature that I really like and could be included as I build a new hull for Super Rapier, but is not something that I considered chopping the stern off of the existing Rapier 2 hull for, although with the gap that was left open between the bottom skin and the transom that needed straddling (see text) I could easily have done it then!
Anyway, it is nice to get some narrative going again about the Project 3 link and the Rapier that started it.
………I have a Stiletto to refurbish - I didn’t know that you had also drawn up the plans for that one. Did your drawings include the bulkheads by any chance? They are always missing from the kit drawings (probably deliberately to prevent easy copies being made), but without them, it is not so easy to do.
Bob.
I even produced drawings for the standard Stiletto!
I decided that the open top variant would suit my water-jet project the best and so produced the drawings for that.
And now there's a sixth (if you include the standard one)! I modified the Sports Fisherman version for my outboard - the outboard is pretty big and I needed to enlarge the superstructure to balance out. It's taller so actually probably better for a Fisherman version anyway. But as you know I also produced drawings for a Sprite Plus with outboard.
I need to check the length as we had three different styling ideas and I liked them all.
Your water-jet project was based on one of these designs.
Only two years ago? I think it was longer than that, and may have been why I never got any further with the Super Rapier as I was tempted to build one of them instead.
Now that you have reminded me, I have the same dilemma all over again!
When I get home next, I will check the contents of the safely stored tube that has them in my office and take another look!
Bob.
Chris
Basically, the Rapier hull will remain unchanged as it looks like a very modern shape, and the pointed bow that looked so wrong back in the 1960’s now looks like those used on many of the current prestigious motor power boats so it will work well with the proposed new super-structure design.
I did mention the term “work well” in the first paragraph, and that is exactly what this hull does best as it is a real deep “V” performance hull.
The modified “forwards” rudder position added a fast rate of turn that enabled this hull to turn very quickly on Rapier 1, and so it will be retained on Super Rapier as I want this Modern Model Power Boat to perform well.
The old pictured kit box was acquired not long after the Covid lock-down and some of the parts may not all be there, but some will be, and it is from these that the hull will be made - together with any parts that need to cut from new wood.
The Superstructure .
The superstructure will be all new and will hopefully remain as shown in my original template (and it has already been cut from 4mm birch plywood), but I am happy to make any changes to it as the boat begins to take shape if it does not look “right” or if I come up with a better shape in any area that can be improved.
The build will feature the same integrated build as the LesRo Rapier because it makes a good strong water tight construction that has proven itself to work well.
Bob.
Looking at your drawings, I think your new design could give the boat a much more balanced and contemporary appearance.
I especially like the fact that you’re not just modifying an existing Rapier and calling it done.
Building a completely new boat gives you the freedom to try these ideas properly and see what actually works before applying them to Rapier 2.
I’m also curious to see how those new cabin sides look once you get them built up in three dimensions. Sometimes a design that looks great on paper changes quite a bit once you see the proportions on the actual hull.
It sounds like Rapier 2 is going to become your test bed for all these ideas, which could be a lot of fun.
And who knows, you may end up with something that looks even more natural on that hull than the original design.
I’ll definitely be following this one, Bob. I’m very curious to see where you take it! 👍