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    Followers
    a yacht yet to get a name
    by nasraf ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
    ๐Ÿ“ฃ










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    19 Posts 35 Comments 41 Photos 22 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ“ New Mast
    15 days ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    I have not got very far with the detail of how to make a carbon fibre encased timber mast.

    I was going to try and enclose the timber core with a tubular sleeve of carbon fibre but I have not had any luck in finding it in this form and it would be very expensive that way.

    Now thinking of either just sticking a woven strip down each side of a basically rectangular section or trying to have a wider strip of carbon fibre tape and folding round the leading edge of the mast and sticking the folded back parts to the sides.

    I have never had any experience with woven carbon and I do not know how well it folds. The most available material available is at 200 gms, per meter sq.

    Is there any advice out there.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    15 days ago by Martin555 ( Admiral)
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    nasraf,
    I maybe missing the point here, but how about doing it using a part of a fishing rod as the core and shaping wood around it.
    Just a suggestion.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    15 days ago by Colin H ( Captain)
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    I have used carbon fibre rod or pole top sections, can be bought quite cheaply, try your local charity shops or tackle shops.
    Cheers Colin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    15 days ago by mturpin013 ( Commander)
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    The best supply of 3mm carbon fibre rod was an old umbrella, all the spokes were carbon fibre so look out for damaged brollies.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    15 days ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Thanks for the responses.

    The original scheme I had for the Valsheda used a bit of fishing rod for the mast but it was a long way from the shape and size of the real thing. I have had a look on e bay for suitable pre made sections but none of them look much like the actual boat and the top part tapers . One of my other problems with the new mast is that it is 1.17 metres long and most suppliers seem to sell it in shorter lengths than this and delivery would no doubt be a problem, I am also trying to make the mast as possible to scale.

    I like a bit of experimental work and I thought this was something new and it may interest other members of this great site, that has developed from its beginnings as a home for the builders of the kit built fireboat. I am a bit of a sporadic contributor and every time I come back I am impressed by its development, someone somewhere is doing a good job.

    As the model is going to be static and consequently not subject to any great loading my main aim is to make something that will keep geometrically accurate. I hope that timber reinforced by carbon fibre may be a way to achieve this.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    14 days ago by roycv ( Able Seaman)
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    Hi you seem very concerned about the mast. Do you have detailed information on it? Is it the original design or the new one? If you stick to making a scale model there is a lot of work in connecting the mainsail to the mast and boom.
    I found that I would make a small item and then find that this had been changed for racing, for example the location and fitting of the mast shrouds. I also could not find out what a mysterious filled in circle on the plans was. It turned out to be the location of a second smaller mast for sailing across the Atlantic. Information comes in dribs and drabs!
    As I was only interested in a sailing model for my 1 : 35 scale J Class Endeavour, I opted for extruded 11.1 dia aluminium mast with a luff groove as per modern practice. It is difficult to find detail of the masts in this era as most pictures want to show the enormous sail area.
    At a sailing model length of a metre or similar then for sturdyness one is forced to follow model yacht practice. I have found that paint judiciously applied can make practical fittings much less obtrusive.

    What information are you working from? Also is your model of the original or the one sailing at the moment.
    All the current full size J Class yachts sail about a foot lower in the water and have propellers. This is due to modern yacht regulations and the fitting out for hiring / staterooms safety etc. All gives a greater hull displacement.
    I found just one picture of the new Endeavour being launched and you can see a propeller intruding into the rudder area. I know for a fact that her hull was re-imagined and she sails a foot lower in the water. The answer is usually that they are adhering to the 'Spirit of the yacht'.
    The deck layout of winches is quite different to the original as well. On my model I took liberties and moved a couple of deck winches so that I could secure a large hatch opening.
    My deck planking is 2mm wide and at it's widest there are 76 planks. Do check photos carefully for deck detail as most have an unobtrusive hand hold / bracing just a couple of inches high sticking up from the deck around the edge of the hull as there are no stanchions. I suggest you might consider varnishing the deck using a cloth wrapped around your finger to spread the varnish thinly and do avoid a shiny finish, matte looks much more to scale.

    The general public do not realise that all of the original J Class were built of metal and they were only meant to last a year or so.
    I believe there is just one new J Class which uses wood laminate for the hull but with modern adhesives(?). All the others being metal hulls

    Look forward to more of your build.

    Roy
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    14 days ago by Joe727 ( Lieutenant)
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    Another source for carbon fiber tubes is archery arrows, they are about 5/16" x 24" and I use the for booms on racing yachts. There's an Archery shop nearby and for some reason they save old arrows in a box, they give me them for free.
    Joe ๐Ÿ˜€
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    13 days ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Thanks Roy for your detailed comments.

    My main aim really is to make a decorative model which is approximately like the real thing.

    As I have no detail information on the boat as she was originally built, my model is based on what it looked like in 2015.

    I found out that the Valsheda was in Southampton in mid 2015 so one Saturday I drove down there and was able to take quite a lot of pictures, which I am now using for guidance on the build.

    As a decorative model set up at slightly above eye level even for tall people, it is unlikely that many will ever see the deck or for that matter most of the deck furniture, but there is some satisfaction in making the bits and pieces and you can put pictures on this web site.

    The main bits that will show are the mast, boom, rigging and sails so that is the reason I want to make the mast more like the real thing than the original arrangements for a functional model.

    I am hopeful that the mast will not be too far away from the real thing, the rigging ( which is complex ) is more difficult in particular with its attachments so these will not be like the real thing.

    On the initial build I only got so far with the sail manufacture when I gave up, I am not sure what I shall do for this version, hopefully I shall get some guidance from fellow members who have done it before.

    I have attached a couple of pictures of the mast details particularly of the attachment of the boom to the mast and as there will be no significant loads on the model it may be possible to make it much nearer to scale.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    12 days ago by roycv ( Able Seaman)
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    Hi as you do not have actual detail then perhaps follow the way other J class yachts are rigged, they were all much the same. Endeavour had two crosstrees and bracing.

    I found this quite easy to do with nylon covered fishing wire and drilled holes with stainless steel hooks made by bending to shape. A small pair of round nose pliers do a great job making small hooks.

    I used tubing for the crosstrees paint everything white. As I said I had an extruded model yachting mast with a luff groove. But you can do very well with a jackline at the rear of the mainmast as well.

    Perhaps the mast was tapered but I would not bother. Certainly avoid mast rings as these were not used for the dedicated build J class but were on some of the older yachts converted to run under the J class rules.

    If she is to be on display as you say make sure the sails set well I used melamine film for mine, it stays set without having cloth limpness. Also you can cut it out with scissors and draw lines and it looks quite good.

    Does Velsheda have the wide main sail boom? If you look carefully you will see that the sail can be set along the many cross pieces to give an aerofoil section, it is not just tethered at the clew end of the sail.

    Good luck with the build, I constructed my yacht back in 2006 and it was featured in Marine Modelling International magazine. It took much longer to build than I had allowed for, but that's life.

    regards

    Roy
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New Mast
    12 days ago by billmcl61 ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Hi,
    Is this any use

    Bill
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR7.TRC1.A0.H0.XCARBON+FIBRE+ROD.TRS0&_nkw=CARBON+FIBRE+ROD&_sacat=0
    ๐Ÿ”—
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    ๐Ÿ“ At Last some Progress
    28 days ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    After another long delay with the Lock In in progress and the Aero Collection in a state of failure I at last got up enough enthusiasm to start the manufacture of the 21 winches required for the VALSHEDA, the warm weater in my cold garage helped. In three days I have done the majority of the hard work in making them from solid brass. Later I intend to work out the final details of the tops and to have them either nickel or chrome plated.

    Another job I did not want to do was to lengthen the boom as the conversion from toy boat to display model required changing the rigging and mast position.

    I still have some detail work to do on the deck houses, the next big job is the new mast and where possible incorporation of the wire work supporting the mast.

    Attached is a picture as it is today with winches temporarily fitted, they all screw on with M6 threads into bushes in the deck.
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    ๐Ÿ“ a yacht yet to get a name
    4 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    As usual it is a long interval since last up date but some progress has been made on the Valsheda and I attached some pics that had to be done indoors as it is a bit wet from the sky outside.

    I have finished the decking and basic painting of hull also started lime planking of deck fittings to bring into line with decking.

    Have worked out positions of winches on deck and obtained stock of brass rod at a sensible price from a local scrap yard. I have to produce some drawings of winches and get into production and have found someone who can plate them with a bright finish near to stainless steel.

    The Management of the Bristol Aero Collection has recently sacked me as a volunteer for being too critical of them so I will have more time to get on with the boat and with rising temperatures the garage is a bit more comfortable.

    With the warmer weather coming I will soon have to think about the manucture of the carbon fibre mast, has anyone else made one and can give me some guidance ? I am thinking of a timber core with a woven fibre tube covering. Also thinking of how to attach main sail to mast.

    deck
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ ytgn 15
    4 years ago by Dave M ( Vice Admiral)
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    HI Naz
    Nice looking decking and cabins. Might be slow but the details is really good.
    Sorry to hear about the volunteering, but their loss. I look forward to seeing even more progress in the future!
    cheers
    dave ๐Ÿ˜€

    cabin
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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 14
    5 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    I did not think it was possible to fit the deck detail with the old main hatch in place and the colour and plank widths were wrong. So made the big decision to take off old mahagony deck and repace with 3 mm lime. I had put the mahagony strip on with the non solvent version of evo stick so it was not a very tight bond and could be stripped without any significant damage to the main plywood deck.

    It is a bit of a long job but have done port side see pic. now for the other side I can only do about 4 strips at a time otherwise glue goes off.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ ytgn 14
    5 years ago by Dave M ( Vice Admiral)
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    HI Nasraf
    Looking good. interesting how easily you removed the glued planks.
    Dave

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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 14
    5 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Here are a few pics.

    If there are any other VALSHEDA builders out there, if you send me an SD card min 100 mb and an sae I will downoad all my pics, ther are too many to send via the net at my upload speed.

    build
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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 13
    5 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    After another long break back to the subject of the VALSHEDA.

    I have decided to change the model from a sailing one back to display only, as I realise that putting boats into and out of water is not as easy as it was, in addition my younger son has moved in the USA and now resides in Marblehead MA where he has a big shelf over a fireplace that was made for a model yacht, particularly an English one in this year of a new challenge for the America cup.

    I have for some time been searching the web for detail pictures of the VALSHEDA but there are some but much of the detail is not easy to see. Whilst looking for the position of the boat I found that she was in the UK and had moved from Falmouth to Southampton last week. So on Saturday 11 July I got up early and made the trip there from Bristol.

    I was hoping to be able to get near to take some photos but initially found that the berth was up against a major reconstruction of the wharf and was enclosed by security fencing. it was a good job that it was a Saturday and there was no work in progress or any " jobs worth " H & S security and I managed to find a way through the fencing, there was only one small opening. From the wharf above the boat I managed to get a good range of shots of the details of, in particular the deck fittings.

    I am at present starting to paint the hull and it is surprising the number of spray cans required. My deck planking detail is not very good as the planks should be much thinner and not mahogany coloured, but it would be a lot of work to re do this and in any case, as it will be displayed above eye level not many people will notice.

    However the mast and rigging will all require re making but I think I can save the boom and I am still trying to make some good sails.

    I would like to make the new mast from carbon fibre on a timber core using a woven tube of fibre, I would be grateful of any advice on the method of doing this from those that have tried.

    The actual deck details on the real boat look like they are all manufactured from stainless steel and the cost must have be astronomical, but they are beautifull bits of engineering to compliment a beautiful boat. I intend to make as many as possible in brass and then have them chrome plated.

    This is my second attempt to day to do this blog, but last time I attached some photos and it may have overloaded the system so I am sending text only on this with a follow up with pics.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ ytgn 13
    4 years ago by NeilHodson ( Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    How did I miss this post?
    Can you Private Message me your address and I'll send you a card and SAE.
    Pictures from 1987 show Velsheda with mahogany decks. I went for 2mm lime strip wood on my 48" model and it looks pretty good.

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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 12
    6 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    I have at last finished the main boom and goose neck/kicker.

    Boom is fabricated from 2 mm ply and has taken a long time after trouble with paint. Goose neck and kicker is made from usual source of old water fittings some of which are soldered together, it has come out a bit heavier than I would have liked but will do for a start, it may look better if it was painted but I think that a coat of varnish will be the method.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ ytgn 12
    6 years ago by professor123 ( Recruit)
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    THIS IS A VERY FINE BOAT, AND JUST LOOK AT THAT DECK I HAVE SEEN FEW AS GOOD AS THAT I HAVE JUST GIVEN A MONSTER BRISTOL PILOT BOAT SOME 48 INS LONG AND WEIGHING IN AT OVER 14 POUNDS TO MY MATE DAVID CHATTERS AT DAVIDS DOCKYARD WHO HAS AROUND FOURTEEN BOATS IN HiS YARD WELL WORTH A LOOK

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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 11
    6 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Pics of rigging and attachments.

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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 10
    6 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    The pictures are of basic rigging made from fishing traces, they are made of stainless steel multI strand wire covered in plastic, ends are made off with crimped steel sleeves.

    Turnbuckles are machined brass rod but with only M3 threads, these are a bit delicate, so I intend to change these to aluminium with larger threads. As I only have RH taps I use fishing swivels on one end to allow the barrel to rotate.

    I will upload photos in another entry.

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    ๐Ÿ“ ytgn 9
    6 years ago by nasraf ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Now back in harness am begining to make some progress.

    This is to manufacture the mast and rigging. The mast is made from a piece of fishing rod, it is a bit big and out of scale but is quite robust and I am not trying to make a true scale boat.

    The spreaders are made from 1/8 thick aluminium sheet and are once again not true to scale but are quite strong and make fitting to slots in the mast a bit stronger.

    In order to fit and glue the spreaders in the mast I made a jig to ensure that all were held in alignment during the fitting and glueing process this is shown in attached pics.

    Since my early contributions on this subject I find the Improvements to this site are very Impressive and those involved in all the work that has been done deserve our great thanks and a bit of a contribution to the pot to cover the costs.

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