Way to go Martin 👍 Respect!
You ain't the only member who's 'hit a brick wall' in a project and got exasperated/dispirited with it, me included 😁 We turn our attention to 'something completely different' (Number 3: A Larch😂) until something clicks and we realise how to smash the wall down.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Well John I've learned a lot and there is a lot more to learn I've got an old duvet cover from the sister to cover it up to protect it. Now I have done the stringer slots the way you said and will glue them in to place then put a hold on the model. Looking at possibly building the Betty Bean for a practise build or you think its too tricky. One thing I am good at is rubbing down car body filler. I had plenty of experience with the rust buckets I had.
Martin

Don't give up Mr Scotsman - 🤗 - the Castle Class hull was started 2 years ago - and I have just started to finish off the hull now - because I commenced the build of an Island Class vessel, HMS Lindisfarne, which I am more than half way through now.

Never in the field of human conflict have I ever done more than one hull at a time - but here I am now with 2 on the go - contemplating a third one 😁 so don't shelve it - but sit back for a while and the golden rule will always be nothing is ever perfect, so, don't try and make it perfect. Your frames may be slightly out and you compensate for the errors when you come to plank and fill with car body filler to correct the errors. Nobody will ever know once you have slapped some paint on it.

john

Rick Yes it'll be back
cheers

Martin I'm sure she will get back on the table.
Rick

Cheers Rick. Just about there new plan sheet and traced frames. Using keel Mk 2 as a problem solver. Which is sitting on temporary stilts to work out the correct height of each frame.

Hope you get it sorted soon.
Rick

Seaspray,
I have sent you a PM.

Martin555.

Hi
I am beginning to wonder if your drawing is correct, as you seem to have the same problem with frame 8.

I know the bow if an ice breaker is different to normal hulls as it has to ride up on to the ice and the weight of the ship helps to break the ice.

Also dose this boat have the added knife part on the hull ?
If so then maybe that starts around frame 8.

Looking again at your photo 3 it looks like it has the knife.

Martin555.

Yes good idea cheers Martin555. I also made the support legs 30 mm from the frame 10 the BBL as I was scuffing my knuckles when I did the sanding on the frames last time. Hope they're not too long and able to take the strain when sanding

Maybe you could make a cardboard keel and fit it all together and you would have a better idea of fit.
If it looks good then you will know what you will have to do next.

Martin555.

Thanks John I'll try that I thought I was reading the plan somewhere wrong but just couldn't find what it was. Got all the paper frames cut and glued on to cardboard but will go your way sound better. Ta.

hi there Scots Martin

Ok then, I think your problem is - that you are getting your lines mixed up here.

Here is a suggestion for ya, if you are starting again, with your frames. Begin first of all by drawing a line roughly 3/4 inch above frame 10 at the bow. This is going to represent your building board.

Now, take all the measurements from your waterline (and no other line). So, if you are measuring say the depth of the keel on say frame 7; measure down on the side profile from the waterline down to the base of the keel. See where that corresponds on your line plan. That is where that frame should end.

Draw in from deck level up to your building board line; your supports. To check that, measure from your waterline on your frame plans up to the line drawn that represents your building board.

Do this with every frame.

I would strongly recommend that you trace each frame and check that tracing against your body plan and also your side profile plan. Also, draw one frame per sheet - so therefore, you can lay the tracing paper sheets on top of one another to see that the frames are corresponding with one another.

Try not to overthink the job - just go for it :-)

Hope this helps - and good luck.

John

Thanks. I see that the baseline intersects the keel line. I drew a line yesterday to have a good look at it both lines can be lost with each other. Hope you know what I mean. Today I'll build the paper templates on a cardboard keel. You also see I.ve been writing a little check list

Hope you get the frames sorted soon .
Rick

Sorry to hear you are still having frame problems.
I hope you sort it out soon.

Martin555.

Keep going you will get there in the end.

Martin555.

This ply is really dry as the sawdust is unreal. Had to do the sanding outside today. More or lees finished sanding the plank supports between the frames. Maybe too enthusiastic as no 10 frame may need packing. Measured it and its different distance from the center line.

Hi John I was wondering how to tackle the framing cheers for that. Thats the way I am going. You know you can read 10 books on model building and get no where. I'll leave the hull for a week and take a rest from it Ta.👍👍

Hi my mate

First of all, don't try and over think the job that you are doing. If it were me building this hull; now we have the frames set up on the board and you have the last frame in at the bow; you need to make yourself a flat sanding block. Something along the lines of 2 inches wide 1 inch thick and say, 10 inches long - rounded at one end. Now, you need some double sided tape - I normally use the tape carpet fitters use as its pretty strong stuff. Get yourself some coarse sand paper and stick it onto the block.

Now, with the block, what you need to do is fair in and even all the frames up. This is where you will find if there are frames that are a bit big, little too small or whatever. Work from the centre frame out to the bow, sanding at 45 degrees to the keel. Same at the stern - work from the middle to the stern. Do not put too much pressure on at the moment as the frames will not support it properly and will begin to vibrate - just gently do it.

If one or two frames are say 1/16 of an inch out - if its proud sand them - to size - if shallow (small) pack them.

Next thing to do is add pieces along the centre of the keel either side - normally I would use 5 x 5 mm obechi or birch - glued either side. The reason for this is it gives you extra landing to glue on to when you start planking.

So, we have completed that

Now....fit the deck stringers. Now... this is just my way of doing it. Your hull is basically a 3 tier hull, you have a raised aft deck a lower cargo deck and a raised bow.

Now, the lower cargo deck basically runs from frames 6,7 and just passed 8 and actually just passed frame 5. So, you need to add a stringer both sides of the hull at this level. This stringer I would run the full length of the hull - so - from frame 0 all the way to frame 10.

Then do the raised rear deck - that stringer I would run from frame 1 to just passed frame 5 - the bow deck I would run the stringer from just before frame 2 to frame 10. Once these have been glued in place then go back and sand & true up all your frames. This is so that actually the frames now will taper to the bow and stern - you should have no sharp edges for the planks to lie on. You will also find that the bow at the keel will be sanded to a point and also frame 10 will be well sanded in and be half the size it is at the moment.

It is certainly up to yourself though how you start planking your hull.

Normally when I begin planking the hull I will start 3 or 4 planks from the centre of the keel towards the deck. Whilst they are drying I turn the hull round and plank 3 or 4 planks on the opposite side. This is so that, as the glue and planks dry out we don't get any twisting or distortion. Then I would plank from the deck 3 or 4 planks up over towards the keel either side. I will then alternate from then on.

Best of luck.

John

Many many thanks Doug. I think that is the best way to go as I can shape things better than trying to bend planks in to shape. Tight very tight in bow since I fitted frame 10 and what a pain it was to fit and terrible looking. To make things a lot easier I go your way in the bow and John's way in the stern. I think I picked a loo loo of a model to build. I'll start with removing frame 10 and also consider removing frame 9 1/2 Have now glued cheek around the stern.
👍👍👍

Looks a bit tight to get another frame in and curve the planks on that bow shape Martin(s) 😉
I would be sorely tempted to fill in back to frame 9 with balsa blocks.
I used chunks of a 20mm balsa plank for mine.
That would also strengthen the bow in case something gets in your way at sea.
Like the harbour wall 😮🙈😁

Shaping is not that bad (easier than fighting the planks round corners!).
Cut the blocks to a roughly correct shape with around 1/4" excess before gluing in.
Cut them so that the grain runs fore and aft parallel to the keel.
That gives more impact strength to the hull and is also easier to trim to shape without the knife digging into the grain.
Then you can carefully trim, with the grain, with a sharp modelling knife or chisel and finish with 100/180 grit paper on a sanding block (chunk of 2x1") for final shaping / smoothing.

I had to do mine by eye, but if you have the plan with hull lines you can use that to make cardboard shaping templates to check as you go.
When happy with the final shape I then harden and seal the balsa using Deluxe Materials EzeKote water based resin diluted with 20% water. Soaks well in, dries in about half an hour 😉 That can then be sanded smooth with a 180/240 grit.

BTW: I note that you are using laminated stringers, with the laminations pre-glued?
It occurred to me that gluing the laminations together before bending and fitting them makes them extremely bend resistant and difficult to shape and fit without cracking.
I would fit one lamination at a time after bending each one to shape in a jig
(check out Admiral mturpin's Build Blogs for some excellent examples of such jigs 👍).
Remember, the outer lamination needs to be a tic longer😉
Hope this helps (maybe to prevent some frustration😉)
Cheers, Doug 😎

Thanks Martin 555
Kind of thought that would be the way to go. Little awkward now to cut a slot in frame 10 but its a case of reverse the blade on the fret saw and do a upward cut. 👍

I think the more you have at the bow the easer i would be to get the proper shape when adding the planking, also you will have more to pin the planking to.
And if you go with a Balsa block the more frames you have the less Balsa needed and less shaping to do.


Martin555.

Thanks Martin 😊
Since then I've finished the hull as I described below and sprayed gloss white.
Unfortunately my photos of that stage went 'south' when my PC drive crashed a few weeks ago. I'm hoping the pics are still in my camera memory card!

Go easy with the filler primer spray at this stage; gentle light coats.
Overdo it with a single heavy (too close/too slow) coat and you may find yourself going back one stage!
Watching with 'paternal' interest 😉😁
Cheers, Doug 😎

Doug
That looks nice and neat.
Seaspray👍

Well! Who's a cheeky chappy then!?😉😀
Happy gluing up 👍
I 'cheated' with my fish cutter restoration and used a balsa block 😁
😎

Cheers Doug No I don't have them pictures appreciated

Hi Seaspray,
Here's a little info on her Chilean service, in case you haven't already found it. 😉
Cheers, Doug 😎
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_icebreaker_Almirante_%...
Lotsa pics here
https://www.google.com/search?q=Icebreaker+Almirante+%C3%93s...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_icebreaker_Almirante_%C3%93scar_Viel

🔗

https://www.google.com/search?q=Icebreaker+Almirante+%C3%93scar+Viel%5B&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=lOaNc-cYh6B4LM%252CRsqP6DcdAhL9LM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTP4RaWE1rSJCqH7YmQPMyzb3EJnA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpq8LPvdDwAhWKiqQKHTx3DLAQ9QF6BAgXEAE#imgrc=lOaNc-cYh6B4LM

🔗

There seems to be not much info of her after out of service with Canada just stumbled across this picture by chance . Cheers for the info.

Looks like the ASMAR yard in Talcahuano Seaspray.
Pic must have been taken in the empty dock shown in attached map pic.
Worked with them in the late nineties on the Navy's OPV program.
Good times 😊
Cheers, Doug 😎
https://www.google.com/maps/place/ASMAR+Talcahuano+Shipyard/...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/ASMAR+Talcahuano+Shipyard/@-36.693984,-73.1021266,895m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x9662c5410425af2f:0x505e1131102b91d!2sChile!3b1!8m2!3d-35.675147!4d-71.542969!3m4!1s0x966835ec0aaef52b:0x2f111a2e3f3a2309!8m2!3d-36.6917711!4d-73.1041431?hl=en

🔗

Hi Martin555
Martin is my Sunday name

Hi John
Same plans as mine. The sister is getting the Griffon plans for me from Canada It has the same hull as NMR. As I've seen her in dry dock. I'll leave gluing up the keel and hull till Monday as I need to have a good think to do the job right. Must admit never thought it was big job as everything has to be straight and in line. Ta

Hi John,
I think your post is meant for Seaspray.

Martin555.

Hi ya Martin

The plan is from Marine Modelling International Plan - by Jim Pottinger the plan lettering/number is MAR3406.

I made a mistake I was looking along the numbers along the buttock lines on the plan. They are also numbered 1, 2, 3 & so on. What I should have said block in from the stern, frame 0 to 1/2 frame. But, plywood cheek pieces I would put in to replace the deck stringer at the stern - I would go from the stern way passed frame 1 by about an inch heading towards the bow.

I got the plans a good while ago as I was also considering building this model.

John

John Where did you get your plan. sounds it has more info on it than mine. Just a check frame 2 thats the 3rd frame on the right on the build board as I didn't bother fitting frame 0. Yes noticed all those angles
daunting is it. Definitely balsa on the stern and try and plank using cheeks supports for the obechi strips and a little soaking. Remember you told me to soak the ply to get a tight bend on the Meteor forecastle bulwark and it worked.
First picture is the template for the bulwark and then offered up. Look at the bend on the plywood it was soaked for a couple of days. next when it is cut and glued in place.

Never mind John, I suspect we've all had an altercation with the lakeside at some time or other. Not that many would \admit it.

Nerys

Now it looks like a real ship, with docking damage.
Cheers Colin.

Oops!
John, Talking and operating your boat, that comes under the heading of multitasking.
We men, apparently cannot do that but a woman can.
Or so i have been told.LOL!!

Martin555.

Martin555 this is what happens when you are too busy talking and not watching your model 😊 collision with bank - I was busy gossiping to me mate Riggers and the model was away off in the distance, trying to dig itself into a concrete bank at full speed.

John

hi there,

the idea of the cheek pieces placed in the bow and the stern is to help take out the extreme strain of the deck stringer as it turns into the bow post and stern post. On some models, if you try and achieve this bend without soaking or steaming and a lot of faff on, the stringer tends to snap. Looking at the plan, to plank right up to the bow, it wouldn't be a problem. Looking at how you have cut & made the keel at the bow, I wouldn't be too bothered about damage to the bow if you run it into the side of the lake 😀 On the stern, you have a lot of bends and radius' so I would advise blocking in with balsa wood from about frame 2. Once you have completed planking and finishing & you have the hull off the building board, you can then carve out an area to give you more access/space at the stern. I did this on the paddle tug; just a thought.

John

Seaspray,
I personally think if you use blocks at the Bow and you should have an accident it will be easer to repair.

Martin555.

Will do Martin555 and I'll look into more into info on John's idea of cheeks. Still thinking whether or not to take planks all the way to the bow and stern or use block balsa or similar.

Good work. Soon moving foreword with the build.
Rick

Seaspray,
I am glad you are slowly getting this frame problem sorted.
When you have then all glued don't forget to chamfer the frame before you start planking.

Martin555.