Doug thanks I lost su ho post now is clear at least better leds than bulbs. Bulbs utilize more power but I will need to use at least 2 of them but I will switch few minutes a for this reason will be not creatival I suppose. I will back to you as soon model will be finish or almost finish in order to show you result of project. Thanks and sorry for stress provided you but at least now due to your help and of some other team members I have basic knowledge on topic. Thanks Fulvio

Hi Fulvio,
" is not clear for me if is better utilize LEDS or light "
Scroll right down to the first answer to your query and you will see that Graham 93 already listed the advantages of LEDs over incandescent lamps (bulbs).

"can I use in the same group led and lights? "
If you mean the 6V bulbs that you have from Krick, and working on a 6V battery, then yes.
BUT; remember each bulb will draw 50mA from your battery (checked on the Krick website), this is more then twice what most LEDs will draw. E.g. 10 bulbs draw 500mA, 10 LEDs draw ~250mA.
Also consider that your bulbs are less efficient; more heat is produced with bulbs than light for each watt consumed. At 6V your bulbs consume 300mW (6x50/1000).
Approx 60% (at least) of that goes as heat, i.e. ~180mW, max 120W light.
In contrast, 'standard' 3mm or 5mm LEDs are approx 90+% efficient.
(Not forgetting the power lost in the dropping resistor! V=IxR, P=IxV 😉)
LEDs waste much less power as heat and live much much longer.

I have a long term test running of an LED illuminated polar bear, so far 10 years (87,600 hours) with no failures😀 Far exceeding the manufacture's spec of 10,000 hours😀
But since you already have the Krick 6V bulbs ...!
Cheers, Doug😎
BTW Back in the days before cheap multi-colour LEDs were available to modellers I used clear (white) bulbs but coloured them as required (red, green, yellow) with glass paint available from craft shops.

Doug good evening but just to understand at the end of all our discussion is not clear for me if is better utilize LEDS or light maybe Leds has long live more than lights? And can I use in the same group led and lights?

Doug good morning
Your explanation is cristal thanks job done.
Just one more topic. Is possible on the same group of lights utilize LEDS and Lights? Or is better keep separate Leds from Lights?
Thanks

Hi Fulmic,
If you use the Krick Duo Memory Switch which I suggested you DO NOT NEED ANOTHER SWITCH!!😀 Save your big 20A switch for another project where you need such power. 20A is 100 times😮 the current you need for your LED circuits.

Connection diagram for the Duo Switch attached.
One of your LED circuits goes to output pins A & B, the other one to pins C & D. Make sure to get the polarity (+ & -) right!
The switch works like this-
At the TX you need a three way switch (ON/OFF/ON) or a spare proportional control, e.g. stick or pot. To find out which channel is assigned to the 3 way switch at the TX check the manual or simply plug servos into channels 5 & 6 and see which one reacts to the TX switch.
To switch ON circuit AB push the switch or stick UP and back to the centre OFF position. The circuit will switch on and stay on. To switch OFF just repeat the above procedure.
Similarly, to switch on circuit CD pull the switch or stick down and return to centre. Repeat to switch off.

Each circuit can handle 1.5A, much more than you need. You could run a string of lights all round the deck😁💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡
Tutto chiaro?
Ciao, Doug😎

Doug what do you think that if i utilize a switch as per your specifications and the second one that i need for the second group of leds i utilize the switch that i attach here the picture? i used this for a brush motor for a air model time ago. He get signal from RX and then has the direct connection with battery and connection with possible electrical motor that in this case i connect with second group of leds. I ask you because at least i re utilize this switch other way i do not use any more. Thanks

Doug is correct and I stand corrected on my comments about the receiver and BAC. Brain fart on my part

Doug good morning
Clear the concept of the 2 switch independently for the 2 groups of LED.
Or even better the switch that you suggest to me 1 switch for 2 groups.
Now just to be sure
The LEDS of one group have to be connect between them in Parallel?
Moreover i understood well that finally is more reliable utilize LEDS with resistor than Lights at 6V? is this correct?
Thanks

Wow!
That's some well equipped and organised workshop😮 I'm jealous!
Looks like you have your own Airforce as well.

Yes you do need one of those switches for each group of LEDs.
There are 2 function versions to work off one RX channel available, e.g. from Krick Germany, link shows their dual switch version with memory - as shown in Bombero's wiring diagram - but what you showed is a single function type, so you will need 2 channels at the RX.
Cheers, Doug😎
https://www.krickshop.de/Elektronik-Motoren/RC-Fernsteuerungen-Zubehoer/Elektronische-Fahrtregler/RC-Schalter/Duo-Switch-Memory-2-K-Schaltmodul.htm?a=article&ProdNr=67202&p=1003

Doug thanks for comments.
In the same time I sent you few pictures of my laboratory that as you know is dedicated for airplanes and now few boats just to enjoy.
In the same time just to be sure you. I fiera me that I need to switch one for each group of lights?
Thanks

Hi Fulmic,
I agree with Dave.
Yes that's the one we mean, with the 'Power In' connection, 3rd wire.
Try to get the 4A version and save €2.😉
I note that the maker is 'elechawk'.
330 seems to be the number of buyers who have commented on the unit, given it stars!

BTW Your model looks great, excellent work👍
I envy the space you have in your workshop!!
Cheers, Doug😎

I send you again the picture of switch is 8 amperes. I show you this because I founded it in amazon. Thanks

Dave I fell I understood well I need to use a switch with the auxiliary connection from the main battery in order to get power from battery and signal from RX. Correct? In this case if I have 2 groups of lights to control indipendente I need 2 switch. Correct? Moreover finally is better Leds or lights? If I understood well Leds are better. Of course Leds with the relative resistor. The leds have to be connect in parallel between them for each group of Leds? Last question Marca 300 is the name of the producer of switch? What I show you in my picture is for 9 amperes is too big?
Thanks

Hi fulmic
I would select ("the switch with connection with battery") the Marca 330 version at 4amps for both your lighting circuits. This is way above what you require and a 1amp version would be fine if available and possibly cheaper.
Use the power lead from your battery for the lights and also to power the ESC.
dave976

I forgot to replay you that I do not have other equipment installed only lights I would like to add on my model but as wrote devised in 2 groups one group is the position light and the second group is working light to make light on the bridge for the figures that works with fish. Thanks

This are the 2 types of switch’s mentioned before by me. Which one I need to use? Thanks you really support me

I back to all of you. I attaché here the different equipments that I will utilize for my Krabbe 12 Ton. The RX graupner 12L the ESC that I bought in Amazon 10 amperes the picture of motor a graupner speed 280 with gear 2:1 rate. Moreover lights this are lights because the LEDS did not arrived yet will arrive soon and I bought leds with already installed the resistors according the different colors. I put also picture of battery already with 2 exit one for ESC and one for the future lights groups. If I understood your explanation well I need to utilize 2 switch’s to connect with RX and on the exit of switch connect 1 group of 4 leds moreover utilize a second switch for a second group of 3 leds. In this case I powered the 2 groups of leds via RX and not by battery directly. Or I need to buy the switch with connection with battery and in this case connect the switch at the RX just to have the signal on off but the power goes via battery and not via RX? What is better? Which switch is better ? Thanks

Good Morning Doug and Dave, sorry for delay in replay but i was busy on the job. I understood your comments, i suppose better to make pictures of the different equipments and also i will prepare a new scheme of connection. I can now confirm that i bought the LEDS already with the resistor applied. I still wait for the leds because i ordered.
Tomorrow morning i will post the info. Thanks

Hi Dave,
Please don't take my post as a personal criticism.
I know only too well that you have many years RC experience.
Was enraptured by your Blog on your mammoth Olympic class builds, together with your mate (Bruce?)who is now incapacitated I understand. Very sad🤔
I well remember, with great pleasure , our discussions during your Dave_M incarnation.
I distinctly remember one member's response during one of those discussions some years ago.
Can't remember now who that was or what the topic was but his comment stuck in my memory (not much else does these days🤔).
He wrote-
"I love it when you two start chatting. It's like a having cornucopia of knowledge being poured over my workshop floor."
What more of an accolade can we wish for?

I appreciate that in such threads as Fulvio's I may have a slight (professional) advantage.
I spent over 30 years writing system descriptions for complex internal/external integrated for naval COMMS system which were also understandable for the non technical minded, e.g. the Admiral who was committing a large chunk his budget!
I had to make it more understandable than the version I received from development, who of course knew exactly how it worked and left out the (to them) obvious details.
One has to consider 'who am I addressing' (in my case back then; operations officer, COMMS officer, operators, maintainers, logistics or the Admiral who has to justify the expense and foot the bill, i.e. how should I express this topic for him (or her in many cases).

Over the years the feedback I got was good and helped me to simplify and concentrate on the essentials. KISS😊
I would then present the solution (often to my design as proposed in my reply to the Request for Tender) and negotiate the contract with navies and shipyards around the world.

I try to use the same principle here, cut to the chase😉
All the best, let us know what you are currently creating sometime👍
Cheers, Doug😎

Hi Doug
I think fulmic should now have sufficient info to wire up his system. I really wasn't trying to confuse novices but was responding to specific questions from the original poster.
I accept this is a complex topic and different countries will have different types of equipment which can add to the confusion.
Like you I have many years of experience with RC and am happy to share this with others.
dave976

Hi Fulvio,
To avoid any further confusion can you please post the manufacturer and type numbers of the ESC, RX and RC Switches that you have. With photos please!
We can then check the specifications to make sure they will work together as you want.
What is the model that this will be fitted in?

Please also advise if any other auxiliary functions will be fitted; e.g. water pumps?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers, Doug😎

Oh woe is me for I have been undone!😮
Dave, Len,
I tried to finally clarify things for Fulvio based on the equipment that he apparently has, esp. re Switchers which have no separate battery input. Now I fear he (and other novices) may be more confused than ever.
Seem to be some misconceptions or maybe unfortunate typing errors. A few points in your posts that surprise and puzzle me.

1. "not all RX have a BEC circuit"
To the best of my knowledge and belief NO RX has an internal BEC circuit.
As the name suggests😉 the BEC (Battery Eliminator Circuit) is in the ESC for the purpose of eliminating the need for a separate battery for the RX supply. If you apply a voltage to any of the RX sockets that same voltage will appear at all the other sockets, regardless of where it comes from.

2. "As regards the current draw I agree with Doug the level will not shorten your sailing time when connected to the main battery."
Even if the switcher and it's load are powered via the BEC the current supplied to the load is still coming from the main battery!

3. "I was advising against using the internal ESC supply from the RX which might struggle driving a servo, the ESC and your lights as well as being 5v."
Why? The ESC draws it's internal circuit power (a few mA) direct from the main battery, usually over a range of voltages.
A typical 'standard' servo draws about 500mA in short bursts. Even if multiple servos are fitted the chance of more than 1 or 2 operating simultaneously is remote.
The RX and Switcher draw only a handful of mA and, as we've seen Fulvio's lights will only draw about 200mA worst case. So even a 1Amp BEC should cope with Fulvio's setup.
5V; I trawled around for so called 6V LEDs and they are generally quoted with an operating voltage range of 4.8 to 7.2V. At 4.8 they will of course be a little dimmer. But IMHO that's no bad thing as often model lighting tends to be too bright and harsh anyway. I've also noted recently that some ESC BECs now provide 6V. Check specs before you buy😉

4. "You can use a 'relay' connected to a battery but make sure it is a relay that has an independent input".
Len; I assume you meant the Switcher here? Some of which use a separate battery and relay for high current switching, and to isolate the high current load from the switching circuit and RX supply. A prudent precaution if the load is a DC motor, it prevents the back EMF from the motor when starting and stopping from potentially damaging the RX.
Most of the tiny (oriental) ones use a low resistance FET (Field Effect Transistor) as the output switching device. Usually good for 1 or 2Amps and often use the supply volts from the RX to feed the load.

5. "Do NOT use the type that has a receiver 3-wire plug on the input end or if you do, make sure to remove the control wire ...".
Sorry, can't get my head round that at all. Control wire to me is the signal wire from the RX. Remove dat and da switch don't woik at all🤔
"the type that has a receiver 3-wire plug on the input end"
That indicates that the switch takes power for the load from the RX, which is what I believe Fulvio has. See the pic he posted way down in this thread.
Cheers, Doug 😎

as Dave pointed out not all RX have a BEC circuit. You can use a relay connected to a battery but make sure it is a relay that has an independent input that is matched to the voltage of the battery. Do NOT use the type that has a receiver 3-wire plug on the input end or if you do, make sure to remove the control wire and make sure it matches the voltage of the battery.

Hi fulmic
I think we may have finally given you a solution. The picture posted by bombero shows a setup that is what you require albeit you will be using two units on separate channels.
As regards the current draw I agree with Doug the level will not shorten your sailing time when connected to the main battery. I should have made it clearer that I was advising against using the internal ESC supply from the RX which might struggle driving a servo, the ESC and your lights as well as being 5v. Not all Rx have a built in BEC and the BEC output from an ESC would normally cope with 2 to 5amp.
Connect the switchers directly via a fuse to the main 6v battery and LEDs and plug into your chosen Rx channel.
Happy days
dave976

Hi Fulvio,
To attempt to finally cast light (😁) on your LED problem!

You have bought "6V LEDs". This means that they already have a resistor fitted, you do not need to add another one.
So you have no choice - you MUST connect them in parallel to the 6V power supply (as in Bombero's diagram, although that is an old version showing incandescent lamps!).

You have two circuits; 3 LEDs on one and maybe 4 on the other. Total 7.
The LEDs will draw on average 25mA (25/1000 Amps).
25 times 7 = 175mA.
Even if they draw 30mA each the total is still only 210mA.
I understand that the RC Switches you have take the power via the RX, i.e. from the BEC supply.
I do not believe that 175 or 210mA will cause any problems or significant reduction to your running time and will certainly not overload typical BEC supplies of 2 or even 5A.
Hope this helps to 'enlighten' you!
Look forward to seeing some pics / vid clips of you model.
Cheers, Doug😎

Dave,
if I read this correctly, this is what you want. I have a graupner mc 26 and I have a duo switch so that I can switch my LED running lights and 109 LEDs for lighting!
I enclose the wiring diagram
Len, bombero

Dave maybe i understood i need to use the switch that has 3 cables. One for Rx one connection for Leds and one connection directly from main battery in this case RX control the signal and the power come from battery in this case RX is safe from extra load in terms of current. Correct?
Vice versa without the direct battery connection with battery (switch with 3 cables) and i have a switch with one connection to Rx and the other side i connect to leds i can use just one led or maximum 2 Leds connected together on the same switch in order to not suck to much power via RX. Correct? Thanks

Dave i utilize a Graupner MC16 at 2,4Ghz. I have free channels over the 4 proportional one. In this case i can utilize the switchs for control the lights.
The switch to utilize is the same of the attached picture? in this case of course one side i plug inside the RX at the channel 5 for example but at the other side of the switch can i connect 3 leds for example? of course i jont 3 led in one female plug to connect with the switch but the topic is this switch can supply 3 leds in one time or i switch is only for 1 led?

Hi fulmic
I am an exflyer so we have similar history.
I believe you understand so far but perhaps I need to explain in more detail about the switching unit. You have Graupner Rc equipment but have not detailed which Tx you are using. I am assuming the Tx has a few switches as well as the usual stick or Knob proportional controls and that you will be using a couple of the switches to control the two light channels via the Rx.
You will need two switch units that plug into the Rx and also connect with your main battery and the Led lights. Suitable units are available on line and if you Google "RC Remote Controlled AUX on/Off Electronic Switch JST Male & Female Cables 2/20A" you will see several options on e-bay. Relatively cheap at

Thanks Len for upgrade

Another thing to consider is only using clear ones and then dying them the color you want using translucent "paint" from companies like Tamiya. The color is not as opaque as a prebought colored one but it usually sufficient. I do this for some of the ones I install in my 1/14 scale R/C trucks as well as my boat. Len1

Dave thanks for remarks in part are clear for this reason i try to resume with my words. First you need to know that 25 years ago i started with air model and i still fly with my models (18 Models) but few months ago i started with the idea to have a couple of boats just in case. I like fishing boats because i like the details.
Based on it i bought a Graupner Krabbe 12Ton old but still in box. I started to assembly and to paint now the model is almost finish from the structure point of view and i start to approach the light topic.
In the model i will use a RX Graupner GR12 and a battery Pb 6V to supply power to RX via the ESC of 10 Ampere due to the fact that the motor a Graupner Speed 280 utilize max 2 Ampere.
In this case i already tested Esc, Rx, Motor and battery all works perfect.
Now i start with lights.
I bought LEDS 6V diameter 3mm. I bought green, red and white color.
My concept is to split the lights in 2 groups. One group the so call position light (green, red, 1 white inside cabin and 1 white color in the back of the model. Second group i would like to put 3 o 4 LED white color around the boat as working lights in order to make light on the brig where the people operate with fish. In this case first group of lights just to move the model and second to work. I need to consider that group 1 and group 2 of the led can be ON in the same time.
On the draft that i send you before in priciple you can see the 2 groups of LEDs. Up to now i set up to exit from the main battery. One live to the ESC just for motor and RX. The second wire exit from main battery always 6V will be to connect the full LED system. Now if i devide the LEDS in 2 group how i control the 2 groups? i understood is better do not go true the RX and this is clear. An so how i can do? I can use a switch to connect to RX and in the other side of switch i connect a group of LEDS? but in this case as you wrote can be a problem for RX because to much leds on each group. This is my actual situation and understanding on the topic. Maybe i need some different device or switch that can support more leds for each group? in a previous model of boat that also i bought months ago (Graupner ELKE) the lights was installed already (leds) but the system in part done included the solution to utilize servos (regular servo) to close the contact circuit in this case the power was not truogh the RX but was indipendent line only for light but i utilized 2 servo as switch. Now in this new model what is better to do?
Thanks

Hi fumic
If I understand you correctly you wish to control two banks of leds using two channels on you Tx by a couple of switch units.
You have purchased 3mm leds with resistors suitable for a 6v supply. If you added your own resistors the values shown in your second diagram are ok.
If you are using individual resistors then you need a 6v supply to each LED. The LEDs will be connected in parallel and brightness (current) controlled by the individual resistor.
You have not given details about your switching units so I am not sure if they will be switching your 6v supply or using the 5v from your rx.
The ESC will be giving a 5-6v relatively high amp output to the rx but there may be a further regulator in the rx which may not be as high an amp output. You could therefore overload the Rx and cause malfunction.
A separate switch of the main 6v battery will be best.
I did indicate that Leds have a maximum voltage depending on their colour and you can buy LEDs with pre attached resistors to work with a range of battery voltages. The resistors reduce the voltage to the safe working level for the LED.
In summary you can connect any number of leds with resistors in parallel to a 6v supply providing the battery has sufficient capacity.
If you do not wish to use resistors you can connect leds of the same type in series and for a 6v battery up to 3 or 4 will give a bright light adding more will give a dimmer light. This is based on an average LED voltage of 2v.
I should mention that early coloured LEDs were not super bright like modern types but I suspect most you can buy today are bright.
Please ask if you need more help.
dave976

Good Morning Dave
Thanks for your clarifications, but due to my school knowledge i am far for eletrical topis. For this reason i need to ask you almost the same things but in my way. I will utilize for my Graupner Krabbe 12T a battery 6V Pb at 2,8 A/h. With the same battery i would like to energize the LEDS.
Here i attach you can find what is my project in order to understand how many Leds i will install. I understood from the posts that is better in Parallel. But what for example is not clear why you mentioned 2V for LEDS. I have a battery 6V and i bought the LEDS for 6V with 3mm diameter. In this case can i Use at 6V?. Moreover can i use for example 4 leds and all 4 leds jont in a single connection that i connect to channel 4 for example of my RX? in different way can i connect more than one LED on a single channel of the RX powered always from the main battery at 6V? I atatch to the present mail the draft of my project in order to have your techncial opinion.
Thanks

Dave, thanks for the detailed info on the color vs voltage. It will help me in laying out my circuits on my tug build. Len1

Hi fulmic
I agree with the previous comments but would add LEDs are polarity sensitive so have to be connected the correct way round to work. I have used LEDs for many years as they are far less likely to melt fittings and have a much longer life than incandescent bulbs.
They are not however universal in their voltage requirements due to the different doping used in the internal crystal structure. The typical voltages are: Red-1.8v; Yellow-2.2v; Green-2.2v; Blue-3.2v; White-3.2v. Nominal current for 5mm is around 20mA but much less for 3mm and surface mount types.
I have used electronic circuits to reduce the voltage from my main batteries as this allows me to adjust the current and hence the brightness to the LEDS. I use parallel connections to save many wires. I may have more than one electronic circuit if using different types of LED. In the case of running Red and Green lights they need to have their own supply (I use a resistor) due to the different voltages as above.
You will not regret using LEDS and there are commercial circuits cheaply available that will provide the required voltages.
Good luck and please post details of how you proceed
dave976

Another example of led lighting. In my opinion the only way to go. So much less current draw and heat is great! Dave

If you want to see led lights look at the photo taken in my garage of my Finnmarken blog (109 lights)😊
Len
https://model-boats.com/blogs/102552#115229

Well stated Graham93,

Lower current draw also allows for smaller gauge wire to get into tight spaces (the resistor does not need to be near the LED). Good example here would be lights mounted on a mast. Also, more LEDs can be used for a more even light, especially interior lighting.

Lew

LEDs offer several advantages:

1. Longer life
2. Lower current draw for similar light output
3. Run cool, very little heat generated.

You can add to those fundamentals:

4. Available in a range of sizes down to very small
5. Available in a range of colours
6. Available with flashing/flickering options.
7. Available in a range of shapes.

Disadvantage - they need a dropping resistor or a constant current supply.

Graham93