I think the answer is to make my model boats and then purchase an RC Boat game for the PC sit in front of the screen and to make it a bit more life like switch the fan on.
And to make it a windy day switch the fan on full blast.LOL!

Martin.

The model flying club I've just joined are also split. Rule-loving arse lickers one end of the container club room. Fun club tother and that really is how it's arranged. Guess where I go! I have never yet actually walked beyond the end of the club room. The haze of disapproval is almost tangible. Our club lets a potential member fly 3 times to see if he likes it and the BMFA insure anyaffiliated club to do so. On being introduced to the chairman at an open day I was treated to a diatribe about not being a member, not being insured...basically, as far as he was concerned, not being welcome. Then he banned me from the club's Facebook page, making it impossible for me even to look at it.! It strikes me that all clubs are like that now and it won't be long until they all fall by the wayside and people like me say "up yours" and do our own thing. I have to do that with boats as it is as there are NO clubs locally, but being the fens, there's a LOT of water and now one of the model aircraft fun club has allowed me to use some private water of which he is the bailiff. That useful crossover thing again. If only there were just model clubs, all in, eh? My interests are far too broad to worry about this aspect or that. How nice it would be to dry off the yacht, wipe the muck off the Skystreak's fuselage and stand munching me sarnies and draining the Thermos while watching the live steamer taking on water. If the weather was shite I could go inside and do some slot racing. Still Earthlings will never agree, so F*** em , I say!

Martin

Hi JB,
There are some really nice models on that site and I like the place that they use.

I just make models now and test and ballast them in Big Blue so I don't have to worry about all that now.
Although I did love spending the day floating my boats and having a cup of tea and a sandwich and a good old chat in the nice sunshin.

Martin.

Know what you mean Martin, it's a bit like the yacht sailers here, they all sail the same boats and they all turn up, take over an area for most of the day and if you dare to try and launch a boat while they are racing watch out. It's quite comical really, watching them all marching up and down the pond like bunch of ducks with their TXs held out the same way. They can get real serious with the racing as well.
I was in a large boat club years ago and there were always arguments between the yacht and powerboat guys and it was always the old (I can say that 'cause I am now) serious yachting codgers whingeing about their allotted day having not been suitable (weather wise) and wanting to take the powerboat day as well because the weather was nicer. Needless to say, in the end, the power boats went their own way, along with the sail and scale guys and the club ceased to exist. It just became too snobby and separated and no fun any more.
Even now, the scale modeling in NZ is pretty dead and if you look at the Auckland club website you'll see why. https://marinemodellers.org.nz/. No info, no updates, no new pics etc. Some of the guys who were in this club were the same as were in the afore mentioned club 30+ yrs ago and they were old then. I tried to contact them and got very little back other than the might be there on Sat mornings for a couple of hours. Why even bother maintaining a web site?
You are pretty much on your own now with model boats here and hardly anyone sells boat parts any more, (Ebay and Aliexpress are the modelers friends now)

The bit that gets to me is the one upman ship.
If your not in the click.
Very uncomfortable.

Martin.

That looks very much like the old drawings from The Rudder magazine, jb. I have a few of those. I love that pastel rendering at the jetty.

DG, my experience of most aircraft flyers is that they know how to be initially very welcoming, unlike every damned model boater I've ever met! We must, of course, except your good self and, indeed, most of the members here, especially our old chum Doug, but go to a British model boat club (if you can find one) and you'll be grunted at if you're lucky.

M

As I recall, there are a lot of these types of plans available from back issues of Practical Mechanics....

Don't know if you have ever heard of D N Goodchild (David) from Bala Cynwyd in Penn USA, (also under the name 'The Press At Toad Hall'). He used to do beautiful reproductions of old boat plans (small yachts, racing boats, hydros, cabin boats etc) from the 20s to 60s. Unfortunately he suddenly ceased the business (supposedly due to ill health) and his huge heritage home (the entire basement was a print shop) was up for sale. I managed to get a few plans (including my 15ft US 1952 designed day sailer) before he closed. The plans were full plans on A4 including lofting photos, drawings and building instructions and came in a nice folder all for around $18 US. You could easily have made a model from any of the plans as they showed all the profiles etc. A lot of people were very disappointed when he closed as he was very popular. You can probably still find his boat building tutorials on Youtube. I've included a small sample of his work (if I win Lotto I'll have this boat built).
John B.

"DG, it's a shame outerzone wouldn't take boats as well. Can't see what their objection could be."

That the plans were 'not aircraft'. Interestingly, I had that response from other places. The FFScale site for instance, though at least they were happy to put my EeZeBilt site in as a link.

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/sportster.htm

My early line drawings were hardly publishable, of course, while the aircraft boys could simply photocopy a professional plan. Model boat kit plans typically do not have all the data needed to produce a boat, while the aircraft plans do.

But I like to think that the aircraft flyers spend so much time with their heads tilted up looking at the sky that when anyone else comes on the scene they have to look down their noses at them... 😊

It's part of my Sherlock Holmes type filing system😂😉

Haha, she don't hang about, my Mrs. She may not be as good on her feet as she was, but she can tickle dem keys as quick as ever! And a bit of 30 year old dust would be great!

M

A bit quick off the mark Martin!
Ain't even cleaned up the box for packing yet😮
Or do you want the 30 year old vintage dust as well?😉
Many thanks Chris👍 Just got the notification from Paypal.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Doug, Chris is doing the money stuff right this minute. She had you on record. Thanks for that.

jb, I do like scratchbuilding, but anything that can save me precious time these days is very valuable, especially when it's a nice offer like Doug's.
And yes, Flite Test was indeed started by Josh Bixler and his buddies. Just a shame they got involved with Graupner. Which I assume is to cover the European side of things, which it doesn't, very well!

DG, it's a shame outerzone wouldn't take boats as well. Can't see what their objection could be.

Martin

I tried very hard to get Outer Zone to take model boat plans as well as model aircraft plans. They would not. It was a pity - we could really do with all these plans in one place

That is why my 'Old Boats' site has a look and feel rather like Outer Zone.

Don't know if you like scratch building at all but OuterZone have hundreds of reproduced downloadable plans from dozens of manufacturers, including Graupner. I recently reproduced a 70s Graupner PA 180 Super cub and Terry which I made for electric. I kept the plans from the kits I built in the 70s and built both planes from them. The only problem was having to make up a built up wing as the originals were foam core. Graupner made lovely kits and accessories in the 70s , shame they had to change .

Flite test I think was started by Josh Bixler and his mates (ex presenters from Hobby King) Hence the Bixler glider.

Okey dokey. I'll let you know when it's taken off😉
Paypal is fine, like last time!
Cheers, Doug

Well, in that case, matey. My dear bride says OK, so If you would car e to get DHL on the task I will happily have it. Can we pay you Paypal?

Thanks, Martin

Wow!
Nevertheless; If you'd like it you can have it for the postage and a pony on top.
Just checked the postage, about 16 quid by DHL. So 36 quid all in.
Don't know of any flying clubs around here, never needed to check!
Cheers, Doug 😎

If it helps, Doug, I found a current ad. stating a price of £85, albeit discontinued.

M

Doug, I would imagine the Cub would cost an arm and a leg to send from Munich to here, so probably not a tenable project. Do you have a local club who might like an old kit from the dim and distant?

Martin

Hi Martin,
Had a similar experience years ago in an ancient Cessna.
No T/O and landing though, just a few gentle manoeuvres while flying from Oberschleisheim field down to the Alps and back. Great fun and views. Shocking noise though🙉
It was the owner of the Cessna (a retired RN Captain) who persuaded me to buy the Cub kit.
Re the Cub: Make me an offer I can't refuse 😉

Cheers, Doug

Doug, the Pietenpol , Cub and over 40 other models are designed and produced by the young guys at Flite test, but they started doing "Power packs for the various models, which used to be e-max, etc. parts, but with my kit for the Pietenpol was a Graupner flyer. It turns out they've been "together" for some time. Flite Test is very American based and their extre,mmely popular videos on youtube often mention Horizon Hobbies, rather than Graupner. Getting their kits in Britain has never been easy. Now Sussex Model Centre has the Cub and Pietenpol listed although the Cub was out of stock. I believe there is one other dealer in UK who claims to have them, but the Flite Test efforts to furnish Brits with kits are not exactly impressive. It could well be that the vids are so popular they were caught on the hop when a UK dealer came on line. The Pietenpol is merely one of FT's many kits and ideal as a trainer being parasol wing. Ideal for me as it's not too big.

I would be interested in the Cub you mentioned. Especially as I once flew a Cub. All very ilegal of course, but I went up in one, except the somewaht Maverick owner/pilot said, "come on then, you flying this or what", while it was ticking over on the end of the runway. So, with his verbal help I flew it! Took off, circled around, lost the airfield (he had to help there) and landed it. Unfortunately it was lost in a massive fire at the club where another 6 vintage aircraft were destroyed. Fortunately they were insured to the hilt and replaced what they could. My friend couldn't find another Fairchild Argus though. He now has a share in a Tiger Moth.

What price were you looking for on the Cub?

Cheers,
Martin

Hi Doug, had the slide sw problem with my new 9XR and replaced it with a German made sw (I ordered a few for spares as well.) It also had a dodgey throttle pot which I replaced as well and no further probs. Same problem at an earlier time with my Acoms FM TX and replaced that with a toggle sw . They use the slide switches obviously for safety reasons so you won't get neck straps etc caught and accidently turn off the TX (same as with external power switches on planes, which should be set with ON towards the tail, so as when you are releasing the plane the switch won't be knocked to OFF. Don't know why they don't just recess a good toggle switch,- much more positive connection.
I had a quick look at DX TXs and a number of people have converted them to LiPos and have said that there is an option in the set up programme in DX6 on, to change the power input to LiPo. Have you heard of that ? not that I'm ever going to own a DX as I have enough TXs but it sounded interesting. Someone mentioned they don't like over 6.4v and start doing strange things. I never bought one due to the number of planes that were lost to 'brown-outs in the earlier ones,- you couldn't give them away here!.
Now for something entirely different- interesting item on JRs demise and attempted recovery of face .http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/jr-radio-spektrum-radios-116/11645243-jr-products-history-date.html
I've used LiFe 3s 1800ma batteries in my old FM Futaba Conquest 5ch TXs plus my 9X (Rhino 1500ma) and 9XR(with JR module) and they have been fantastic. While a bit down on voltage I have no probs flying to max LOS and the voltage hardly changes. I've had the 3 Zippys plus the Rhino 1500ma (in the 9X) since 2010 and they are still going strong. If you can fit them in a TX and it will function on a slightly lesser voltage I would recommend fitting them (or whatever LiFe will fit space- and voltage wise. ) No More black wire form NiCads either!. I also have a LiPo TX pack for my Futaba 6ex which I've yet to use, (original NiCad still ok after 9yrs, -my original Futaba 'brown box'TXs LiPos lasted 15 yrs!- Jap quality.) Mind you, had to replace the wiring up to the switch. I use NiMH batteries in my 2 HK 6 DF TXs and 6x with no range problems at all and both are made for std AA batteries. Sounds like the DX is very voltage specific but there must be something better that can be fitted. (once had a big 9.8v car NiCad clamped to the outside back cover of my old Futaba.
BTW, I notice you're holding that fish very close to the camera ???!!

" If Graupner want to reach a wider public they need to ensure that the kits are available"
Who actually makes the kits?
I thought you meant a manufacturer with Pietenpol, not a particular model kit.
It's the manufacturers job to ensure availability of products.
Natch if the wider marketing through a partner awakens larger interest and demand (which is the object of the exercise) then it's up to the manufacturer to gear up his production to match.
Unfortunately this is often not the case - until it is too late🤔
Natch Graupner will want their cut for their marketing / sales efforts.
Doug
Apropos Cub; I still have a boxed Great Planes kit of an 'ElectriCub'.
Deluxe kit #ECUB-D. Sport model J-3 Piper Cub. Wingspan 59".
Kit includes loads of wood (much pre-cut) vacform nose, motor and mount, prop and spinner, wiring harness, full size plans and build / operation instruction book.
Bought about 30 years ago. I only opened it to check that it was complete.
I will most likely never build it so if it's of any interest to you let me know and I'll send some more details / pics.
PS: forward vision was a nightmare on most of the early aircraft, (Concorde as well 😉)

And charge twice as much! Whilst the airframe kit is complete and very inexpensive, the ready packed power packs are NOT cheap. I can get all the bits in there for half the Graupnerised price. If Graupner want to reach a wider public they need to ensure that the kits are available, which they most certainly are not. I was after the Cub, but out of stock, hence the parasol winged Pietenpol. It was a home build aircraft, Doug with, amazingly, a Ford model A engine and a stand up radiator that must have made forward vision a nightmare! But, I'm sure this is enough about airyplanes on a model boat forum.

Martin

I've never heard of Pietenpol Martin.
And I'm sure not many others either.
That's the point of 'linking up' with Graupner.
They can then use Graupner's marketing and sales net (which is about all they are after the takeover by JR) to reach a wider / larger market.
Cheers, Doug 😎

My son and daughter have been doing car drawing prints for me, but I didn't fancy the cost of ink. But I must say, doing an instant print to take into the workshop is a big help. I have the Matra almost done inside a day!

I also have the fuselage part built on the Pietenpol. Very well designed kits. Everything fits a treat and very inexpensive. Shame they've married up with Graupner. That's just an excuse to put prices up.

Martin

"And as for printing I only this last weekend got one from Lidls! First one in ages"

Yer wot??? Retires scratching head!

PS Glad you finally got the Vincent castings sorted.
Look forward to pics of the result.

Depending on how long you left the NiMhs, and their charge state at the start, you may be able to salvage them. Maybe not all with full capacity but something!
Stick 'em on the charger and see what happens😉

Cheers, Doug 😎

That's great, Doug, thanks. The LiPo is gaining volts slowly. The NiMhs are probably dead in that case as I hadn't done much with them. Just too damned busy with the bloody Vincent. Today the new (last chance) caster sent me pics of the engine cases and he's made a nice job of them. At last I can breathe a bit, but the hold ups and disasters buggered up my winter works.

And as for printing I only this last weekend got one from Lidls! First one in ages.

Cheers,
Martin

Hi Martin,
37% residual charge for a LiPo is fine 👍 I use 30% as a bottom limit.
"I didn't know about the charge rate so left it at 0.2A. It's a 2200 3S"
200mA is always a good safe starting point.👍
Yep, you're dead right 👍 11 hours charge is correct, assuming that the battery was dead flat at the start. Which it obviously wasn't (37% charge left).
But the charger should recognise that and adjust the time accordingly.
500mA is also safe, but NEVER more than 1A.

You may see 'Fast charge' LiPos advertised as 10C, 20C or even more. Meaning charging at 10 or 20 times the capacity in AH as Amps. So for your battery that would mean a charge current of 22 or 44A 😮💥
At the very least the battery would get very hot, may 'puff out', which drastically shortens it's useful life, or at worst cause it to explode💥🔥
Similarly advertised discharge rates I've seen of up to 50C are nonsense.
Consider a 5000mAH battery = 5Ah. I.e. it can provide 5A for one hour (theoretically 'in this the most perfect of all possible worlds'😁)
A discharge rate of 50C would mean 50*5 = 250A😮
The theoretical discharge time (before the battery departs for Valhalla) would be 5/250 hours.
= 72 seconds. After that buy a new battery☹️, and model if it burst into flames.☹️
So where does that getcha?
Thus it becomes obvious that such figures are nothing more than marketing gimmicks.
Buyer beware!

The NiMHs are a bit more critical as far as maintenance is concerned. As I'm sure I mentioned before, they have a self-discharge rate of around 1% per day. So if you leave an NiMH battery alone for 3 months it has very likely joined the Dodos. At the very least it will never be able to take a full charge again, due to irreversible chemical changes. So called 'Deep discharge'.
Here endeth the epistle to the Wisbech Luddites for tonight 😁
BTW: thought you were going to print all this out the last time we discussed it, as reminder for the winter maintenance?
Considering the prices of batteries it's worth a little effort to keep 'em happy.
Cheers, Doug 😎
Thinks! This is all stuff I was considering adding to the 'How Tos' on batteries, when I can get A Round Tuit!
BTW: apropos capacity! Look for batteries which are marked with an IEC standard against which the quoted capacity has been measured. Otherwise it's a bit of a Pig in Poke business.
Don't just buy the cheapest on offer, you'll most likely be disappointed.
Go for the lowest offer available for a well known manufacturer who also provides specs and the standards adhered to.
I know almost all batteries seem to be made in China these days. But many are also made there for well known western brand names to strict specifications.
Cheapo 'No Names'? Who knows?

I scraped through Physics at school and somehow chemistry which I hated. I'm more your Ettore Bugatti /Bill Lyons than your Alec Isigonis/Wally Hassan. Artist engineer. It's gotta be pretty first. Or at worst interesting.

M

That was a good read Dodgy might just have to move away from static models so my brain 🧠 can boil along with the rest of you.

Hi DG,
A humorous scratching of the surface of the subject👍
As a physicist/engineer I belong to the many who consider chemistry a subsection of physics😉
Natch the chemists see things the other way round, but the chemi teacher and I mutually and amicably decided to go our separate ways!
Spent the 'released time' on psychology and German instead😊
At least the latter has been useful.
(PS Addendum: On reflection both have been useful. Psychology during contract negotiation for instance!)
Wasn't until much later in my physics studies (when we started to get inside the atom) that I realised what all those hitherto inexplicable chemi formulae meant and how the reactions came about😮 'A quantum of enlightenment!'
Cheers, Doug 😎

Well, my one LiPo is currently on charge having fallen to 37% according to some other bit of kit you made me buy It's slowly going up in volts. The NiMhs? I dunno. I have a load of packs, some which came with 2 beginner brushed motor aircraft and a n Rx pack of 5 all wired together, which I'll try to charge when the LiPo's finished. I didn't know about the charge rate so left it at 0.2A. It's a 2200 3S, so does that mean 11 hours for a full charge? I need to just hook everything up, but I don't know whether my one ESC works or not, so I will charge the LiPo, buy some drycells for the TX and see if it all works. But I don't remember stuff that doesn't interest me, even if it's necessary, so I hope I haven't overlooked anything. I know you bound the Orange Rx. to the Spektrum, but did you do the little black one?

My Dad was a huge Glen Miller fan as was Chris's Dad. My favourite SDJ song was Rythm of Life.

Martin

"Straighten up and fly right, by Sammy Davis Junior, the best entertainer the world has ever seen"
I almost agree Martin👍
But SDJ didn't write it. Nat King Cole and Irving Mills did in 1943 I think.
But Sammy did a good cover on his 1965 'Nat King Cole Songbook album.

I like the version (Major!) Glenn Miller arranged for the Big Band and played with his Army Air Corps Band in London during the war. Somewhere I've still got copies of 'The Secret Recordings' made during those concerts which were broadcast to the troops after D-Day and collated by the late great Alan Dell.
Great stuff. Cheers, Doug 😎
BTW I hope that during the winter you diligently checked and charged all your batteries, Lipo or especially NiMH??? As we discussed back then😉

Thanks for those links, DG, but I'm afraid I nodded off!!

M

"....All to do with number of electron shells and charge carriers I believe..."

Indeed. Here is a simple explanation - https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/degrees-of-freedom/the-periodic-table-and-batteries/

and here is the Wiki on electronegativity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronegativity#Electropositivity

That';s what I'd assumed, Doug as I vaguely recalled you all telling me to get one. I'll try it on my LiPos.

Straighten up and fly right, by Sammy Davis Junior, the best entertainer the world has ever seen. He was also a thoroughly nice guy. My Uncle played double bass in the orchestra of the London Palladium and he idolised the man. Reckoned he was a better drummer than even Buddy Rich who he described as "nuffin', but a bleedn' show-off".

Martin

Hi Martin,
"Bloody silly they couldn't make rechargeables the same voltage as dry cells in the first place!"
It's 'bloody silly' fact of life of the physics of the chemistry used in NiMH!😉
LiPo chemistry is different again, being based on Lithium instead of Nickel. Which is why there nominal cell voltage is 3.7V.
All to do with number of electron shells and charge carriers I believe 😮🤓
I can assure assure you there is no charging socket on your TX inside or out👍

If your 'wee gizmo' looks like the one in attached pic it is a battery monitor, in particular for LiPos. Plugged into the balancing socket of a Lipo battery it displays the cell voltages and then total voltage. It also screams it's nuts off if a cell drops to it's lowest safe voltage. ~3.0V (some say 2.7V!) So you could use it as an alarm if using a LiPo in your models.👍

Happy flying, "Straighten up and fly right" 😉 Great Glenn Miller number.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Thanks, Doug. So heavy duty cells will be OK for the Tx, provided they're dry cells. Bloody silly they couldn't make rechargeables the same voltage as dry cells in the first place! OK, I'll wait until I desperately need them, then get a set.

No internal charging port as far as I know.

Thanks to you and jbkiwi for the reassurance. BTW, I seem to have a wee meter (small as an Rx. with numbers on it. Is that a voltage checker that you all told me to get? Damned if I can remember!

Martin

Hi Martin,
Save your money, time and effort!
Just like my DX6 your TX needs 6V from Alkaline batteries.
To get 6V from NiMH you'll need 5 cells, which you haven't got a cat in hells chance of squishing in. A fully charged 4 cell pack may show up to around 5.6V OFF LOAD.
So you start around half a volt short in the first place.
Shortly after a load is applied the cell voltages will drop to their nominal 1.2V.
Giving 4.8V for the TX. This is roughly the voltage of 4 nearly flat alkaline cells.
2000mAH cells have been recommended.

Good quality Alkaline cells made to the IEC standard, such as Varta or Duracell, have a capacity of around 2500mAH. Make sure you get the Heavy Duty version, i.e. for cameras.
These will last for ages, unless you forget to turn it off 😉

When I tested your TX the switch was perfectly OK and I don't think you can get a toggle switch in without major surgery anyway.
I'm not fan of slide switches either, they are always the first thing I have to replace in Gisela's garden lights and fountain pumps etc, usually due to corrosion. But considering the low usage, without getting wet (unless you fall in the pond with it😮), it will have in your TX it shouldn't be a problem.

The reason your rechargeables kept popping out is that many of them are a fraction larger than the alkalines. I've had this problem with several devices.

I use alkaline in my DX6 and my Turnigy clone. No problems.
The only TX I use NiMH in is an old Graupner MC-10, 40Megs for my submarines.
But it was designed for use with a 9.6V pack in the first place and has a charging socket.
Does your DX5E have a charging socket? No! Neither does my DX6.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Probably one of these under the power switch, (you'll have to check first) may only be accessible from inside unless the front face of the TX unscrews. If you are not sure get someone who knows radios to do it. If it's dud you are going to have to change it for safety reasons anyhow. Check my previous reply as I added something else.

Thanks, JB, I'll do that, but what kind of switch do I need to replace the slider? I don't understand electrics at all.

Martin

Check on Hobby king, they may have a low discharge LiPo pack or a LiFe pack specially made to go straight in (might have to remove the springs to fit it). Slightly lower voltage but they will keep a steady voltage in the safe range for months of use (depending on use) They leave individual cells for dead.
If the switch gives the slightest hint of a glitch change it for the best quality one you can find, (ie , if you ever have to switch the radio on-off-on a couple of times to get it going, change the switch!) You might investigate using a 1700 Mah LiFe 6.6v receiver pack with a UBEC set to 5v (the type with voltage jumper plugs) if you could fit it in. Had a quick look and you don't have a lot of choice. Perhaps you could buy 4 NiMh solder tab 2000 mAh batteries and make your own pack to fit (you'll need the correct charger)