Hi Cash.
I am trying to setup a set of test servos with the rx and an esc and motor before I try fitting it to the boat.
To prove my wiring is correct first.
I will post the results at the end of the week.
Cheers Colin.

Hope that gets you up and running, let me know if I can be of further assistance. 😊

Thanks most helpful.
Cheers Colin.

Hobby king had a good pic of the module in the Ff1 kit, looks like I have the same module-hope this helps

Thanks Cash.
I've got the module but no instructions or information, even frsky website can't help. So if you have the info I need I would be very grateful.
Cheers Colin.

Re- Thanks JB. It's getting clearer now what is possible
That's good then Colin, didn't know you'd had Helis, - only just noticed the heli system label on your TX (I was right for once!) so the manual might bring you back some memories from the cobweb closet 😮 I think lots of us old codgers have wobbly creaky hand syndrome, my grip's going (had 1 carpal tunnel op) and I'm constantly picking stuff up off the floor while working, (might as well work down there, it would save grovelling around looking for small screws etc😠) But we're still alive and making stuff!😊 Bonus!
JB

Colin, do you presently have a Frsky module for your Futaba? If not, I might still have the one I was using in my Hitec optic 6. They use the same module. Let me know I’ll look for it, can’t remember if I gave it to a buddy or not, but I’ll check

Wrong about the Heli bit for the PDF, not sure about yours but read that yours is a heli radio (assumed the manual was- didn't read it first,). Doesn't matter, either way you should get a good number of functions with a bit of fiddling.
JB

Thanks JB. It's getting clearer now what is possible. Although at 70 re-learning about rc multi channel set ups is a bit daunting. I was lucky enough to have my flying systems set up for me, but that was quite a while ago. In fact I gave up flying as I scrapped near on £800 worth of helicopters as my arthritis started to affect my hands, so steady flight wasn't very good and landing almost impossible.
Cheers Colin.

This might help Colin, same series. These (and yours) are Heli radios and so old not even listed in the Futaba obsolete section. I have 2 even older FP-T5NLH non computer heli radios I used for my planes before going 2.4. You can use the heli radios for anything but the rotary knobs are for trimming pitch and tail rotor, throttle etc and work together with other switches. You can probably use the normal std functions plus throttle hold, throttle cut (which also works in conjunction with the rotary trims and a few others but it might take a bit of mucking around to get them to do what you want.
I used a few functions for things they weren't meant for in the planes, like throttle cut, idle up (toggle sw turns on pre set throttle hold level- for auto rotation). This manual should give you a rough idea and the rest will be suck and see.
http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/7uaf-7uap-manual.pdf
JB

Hi Colin,
Your diagram looks good to me.

I have my radar turning as soon as I switch on the receiver, that way I don't forget to switch off the boat after use.

Martin555.

Hi Colin, there should be many similarities in the basics.
Try it and see what happens.🤞
If I can't find anything better or COMBO instructions (have already noted a You Tube How To video😉) I have another idea that might save buying a new set!
But more of that later if we've exhausted other possibilities.
Gotta go out shortly but will be back on later tonight.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Thanks Doug,
It should help no end, is this the same as my FF7super FP-T7UPS.
And is it also the same as my FP-T7UHP.
Another minor problem is that the Frsky FF-1COMBO. module also minus instructions. I've been on the Frsky Web site and tried to get the details, but this model keeps coming up not found. And they no longer list modules for the futaba range. Might have to look for a new cheap 7 channel set up.
99% of my boats only use 2 to 4 channels, so another set of rc gear seems to be the only way forward, I hate wasting money especially as I only get to sail about 4 times a year.
Cheers Colin. 😭

Hi Colin,
Maybe this will help lift the fog.
They all seem to be related!
Wiring diag looks good to me👍
I'd use the spare channel for something more interesting;
Sound? Smoke? Searchlight? ...
I use a manual switch on launching for the radar.
After all it should be operating before leaving harbour😉
Cheers, Doug 😎

Good day Doug and Martin,
I think I am on the same page as you now, look at my sketch and see what you think.
Still have a channel free, so might use another rc switch to operate the radar.
If it is correct I will then ask for help setting up the transmitter. Ah the mistery of radio control systems.
Cheers Colin
Ps none of 40 mhz stuff had enough channels. And just found another one of my old flight tx's. See picture.
Can't find my instructions for any of this lot so sailing in thick fog.

Welcome aboard Chief.
Missed you and Lt jg Errol on the Night Watch!

A wise warning on the frequency conversion.👍
As far as I can see Colin's Futaba FF7 TX was designed primarily for aircraft but also to accommodate various RF modules, from 35Megs through 40 and the 70s you guys can use and 2.4 Gigs.
He also has the FrSky 2.4 kit designed for use in Futaba TXs, with matching spread spectrum and coding, so he should be OK🤞 Agree he might need to make space to fit an extra Bind switch, UNLESS the new software uses a particular position of an existing switch, or a combination of existing switches! Guess we'll see shortly.
Cheers, Doug 😎

On modding transmitters to 2.4, remember that every different manufacturer has thei own proprietary 2.4 code, so if you have a 2.4 brand in mind, make sure the transmitter module matches the receiver. I use Frsky, and I think they make plug in modules to replace the transmitters frequency module if it has a plug in module in the back. If not, some manufacturers have a “hack” module that you solder in and also drill a hole for the bind switch. I converted one of my Multiplex Cockpits to 2.4 using a Frsky module, works great!

Hi Colin,
I assume that the TX is 35Megs for aircraft at the moment, and you want to convert it to 2.4Gig using that Combo kit. Futaba has so many type numbers for zig versions of their TXs and modules it's difficult to tell what is compatible with what.🤔
Check the manuals and if the TX module fits give it a go. Good luck🤞👍
There seems to be a lot of videos on the web about this conversion to guide you😊
That'll give you 8 channels to play with for switching special functions😊

For the thruster ESC look for something like this from a UK source-
https://uk.banggood.com/10A-ESC-Brushed-Speed-Controller-For-RC-Car-And-Boat-Without-Brake-p-966363.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN
Before you connect it to the RX remove the red lead from the RX plug!

Thought you said you also had some 40Mhz gear?
Cheers, Doug 😎

Hi Doug.
Here are the items that I have available which could possibly do all the work on my boat.
If you think it will work I may splash out on a couple of rc controlled switches for the lighting and radar.
What's the verdict, do you have any comments.
Cheers Colin.

"I find that with fast boats I can steer at speed on the trims if they are mechanical... "
Me too Dodgy👍
I also use the throttle trims to set Cruise Control while I'm eatin' me sarnies, or spare ribs if near the Biergarten😋 E.g. my destroyer then patrols in circles.
Irritating that on modern 2.4 sets that the trims are digital and buried in an obscure menu☹️
Must have a look on the scope what the diode strings do to the DC pulses!
Cheers, Doug 😎

"If you mean your diode strings I'm not sure how they would react to a square waveform or polarity reversal."

I had covered this earlier - diodes pointing both ways. But limiting the input would work as well. As would programming the Tx.....the key thing is to use a reversible ESC..

I find that with fast boats I can steer at speed on the trims if they are mechanical...

Thanks Doug,
I will dig out Futaba radio set an see if I can figure out how to use it for the boat.
Haven't had it out for a few years now, so I hope it still works.
I have a new 2.4 module and receiver to match that I was going to sell with the tx, but I think it could be ideal if someone knows how to set it up.
What do you think about this, could aircraft control be used for a boat.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Colin,
DON'T PANIC!!👍
One step at a time.
You say you have some 40Mhz sets. Which ones?
Yes, you can run the ESC from the UBEC.
What have you already got in your stash?
Cheers, Doug

"and stick a voltage-dropping line in the ESC output if it was a bit too high?"
That doesn't make sense to me Dodgy?
If you mean your diode strings I'm not sure how they would react to a square waveform or polarity reversal.
The UBEC (which Colin already has) belongs on the input side of the ESC.
The ESC output to the motor can usually be limited at the TX, e.g set Max Servo Travel 50%.
Even on many older 40MHz sets, e.g my Graupner MC-10s. Have a duff one for spares😉
If not finger tip control and practice!
If all else fails (use bl***y great nails!) two stick travel limiting screws.

Colin;
you may even find that the stick trim control levers have enough travel to do the job for slow manoeuvring. Suck it and see👍 might have to disturb the fish - maybe your dragon could herd 'em (er school 'em?) up one end of the pond for you?
Cheers, Doug 😎
I wouldn't link the thruster to the rudder either. Might be great manoeuvring in harbour but not so good for a turn at speed. Could produce some heart stopping results😮

Doug, that's a lot to take in at one go.
Can I run an esc after the UBEC, if so any ideas as to what type, and where from.
I suppose if it's possible I could try one of my 7 channel Futaba aircraft tx and rx. Systems and use a 2.4ghz module.
But I would definitely need help setting it up, oh my god what have I done.
Cheers Colin. 🤔

Colin, either I missed something here or my brain forgot to get up with me this morning🤔
Whether you use a servo operated reversing switch or an ESC you will still need an RX channel to make it work.
So why not go the Full Monty (previously known as Whole Hog. Oink oink😮) and fit a little ESC? That gives you the smooth proportional control you will need.
Thrusters are used for slow manoeuvring in tight spaces so fine slow speed control is needed.
Switching from full starboard to full port etc will make your ship twitch like a Bunny's nose!
(No! NOT THOSE Bunnies you depraved bunch🙄)
So either you need a 6 channel RC set or, as you say, go without the vertical hydrant movement. That would be a shame though cos you'd lose the range control🤔
Possible solution:
Fix a profile (cam like) to the rotator such that the vertical push rod rides it up and down (cam follower!) For instance, down fore and aft, up port /starboard. Just depends how you cut the profile.
Like the safety cam idea on the rotator👍 Must remember that for my gun turret control.

The UBEC: Why switch it? set it to the most convenient max voltage for your thruster motor.
Seems to be done with the jumper plugs. Check the destructions or, if they've gone AWOL, just connect 'em to a battery or your PSU and see what comes out.
A 6V 6W bulb or similar and/or a voltmeter will settle that.
The second UBEC has two tracks marked SW i.e. switch. Leave it open and check the volts out. Short it out and check again.
Probably 6V will be best to ensure stable working of a little ESC.
5V may be better for a converted servo. Many older servos were designed for 5V (4.8V RX supply) in the NiCad NiMH days.
BTW: apropo servo conversion:-
I hope you have a small soldering iron, max 25W with a 1mm flat chisel bit.
Preferably temperature controlled and try not to go above 250 to 300°C with it.
Also; if you open a servo up and find the servo board uses SMD (Surface Mounted Devices) which look like low flat sections of a millipede - then put it back together pronto.
Any messing about with the PCB will most likely wreck the decoder chip.😭
Cheers, Doug 😎

What I need to do is to get the thruster to run in 2 directions???

I thought that you were going to drive a second reversible ESC from the receiver to the thruster, and stick a voltage-dropping line in the ESC output if it was a bit too high?

...then combine that channel with the rudder if your transmitter is programmable... if you want them to operate together...

Possible donor forward /reverse switching from the Sea Commander.

Thanks Doug, I have sketched the layout as best I can.
Lights and radar will be switched direct to batteries.
I need 4 channels to operate the esc, rudder, fire hydrant rotation, and fire hydrant vertical movement.
The pump is switched via micro switches and cam on the rotator so it only works when pointing away from the boat.
What I need to do is to get the thruster to run in 2 directions???
The UBEC can give me either 5 or 6 volts output. So I'll need to switch it somehow, as it only needs to run at one speed.
I only have a 4 channel rc transmitter and receiver spare at present, so I may go with a fixed height on the fire hydrant if i need another servo channel to control the thruster. 🤔
ALL and any help gratefully received.
Now to go and look at the electrics on the Wavemaster.
Cheers Colin.

Hopefully my fish won't mind if I stick it in the pond as I don't have any other water available, no bath, they took it away and fitted me a wet room with shower when I had my new knee. Unless I can borrow the grandkids paddling pool.
Cheers Colin. 🤔

OK Colin,
I'll have a hunt around. They all look pretty similar.
Can't read the label on the second though.
Re the motor (looks like a 3V to 6V+ job) and possible loading try this;-
If possible, (hull integrity and SWMBO being on shore leave permitting😉),
put the boat in the domestic test tank and run it up to 6V with an ammeter in series with the motor. Check the current draw and if you are getting sufficient side thrust both ways, more or less evenly. Cheers, Doug 😎

Hi Colin,
I can take you through the servo strip down and how to connect it to the motor.

But it will be an experiment as to whether the servo PCB will be able to handle the motor properly.

Martin555.

Hi guys and gals, I have sorted out my old servos and if needed I can strip down and modify to control my bow thruster.
I hope one of you will be able to help me choose the best one and show me how to use it. Check out the pictures.
Also the bow thruster motor is a little Mabuchi of unknown power, but it runs sweetest on 6v. So I have a UBEC. to drop the voltage as the rest of the boat runs on 12volts.
A big thanks to all of your suggestions.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Martin, it would have to be one hell of a bang, I live next to a firing range, so used to it.
Cheers Colin.

Don't say "BANG" you'll frighten Colin off.LOL!

Martin555.

"Have a bang good acct."
Bang good show Colin 👍
😎

Hi Dodgy,
All very true, I don't think I said anything to the contrary!?

I treated the resistors as a separate topic as Colin mentioned he was thinking of using them for the thruster ESC.

Of course diodes are not resistors🙄
But they're not bits of copper wire either!
Just have the handy characteristic that the forward resistance is low and the reverse resistance is high😊 Hence the name di-ode, two-paths!

Do you put a fast Schottky as the last one in the chain for some protection?
Current can go high if a short / jammed motor occurs.
If so remember volt drop (diode Built in Voltage) is only about 0.2 / 0.25V.
Fuse should be in the line somewhere anyway I guess.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Hi JB, They sound like cheap packages of Deep Joy😁
They're probably based around one of the L, LC, LM or MC Regulator chip series anyway.
The better ones do have overload / short circuit protection built in.
"Taste and try before you buy" i.e. Read the specs!!

The variable ones seem to be a different kettle of kippers in that respect.
S'pose you could add some schottkies?

I'll have to start checking out my projects in detail to see which voltages I need for which special functions. Shucks! Yet another column in the spreadsheet🤔
Cheers, Doug 😎

RE "Will a UBEC do the same job"
Good point on the pos leads Doug, although if you are just using them to drop V independent of the REC you don't have to worry.
JB

Hi Colin, the UBECs are great for dropping voltage to Receivers, small motors, lights or anything with lowish drain (or more depending on type of UBEC), as mentioned. Will run any servo no probs. Most of us who fly planes use them, rather than trust the BECs in the ESCs which are prone to problems if the main battery runs down, (the motor circuit hogs the power first).
If you are fitting them, the best way I have found is to solder a JST lead in between the battery and the ESC on the ESC lead, (that way it's independent - I do this on all my ESCs,-planes and boats) You can have one power lead out and make a terminal block for various UBECs or power to other things or, make a JST splitter lead up. You can also fit a switch to isolate this lead.
JB

RE - Those Henge jobs look pretty good (as long as they aren't made o Stone
Hi Doug, yes, those UBECs are a cheap and simple way of dropping power, and as I mentioned, I used the small Hobbywing one to power the cooling pump on the ST down to 6v (from 2s LiPo) so it didn't look like a jet boat, - no problem at all ( have the same thing in the HSL). I've used the adjustable voltage units before and they work well (as long as you don't senior moment them - input to output not thinking) they have no rev polarity or input protection, (at least the one I deaded didn't)- it's now a 12v -1v only☹️
For a few bucks, who cares, just buy a few at a time as they are handy for setting light voltages etc as you can start at 0 and work your way up till you're happiness filled.😊😊
JB

"....I had thought of folding the diode strings, then considered that any heat generated at high currents would be concentrated in one place......"

You would probably not use this technique for a high current application - but ancillary services rarely need high currents. Up to 1A should be fine with a 1N4001. Remember that diodes are not resistors - the voltage drop is constant no matter what the current is, so the power dissipation is not linear like a resistor and heating does not build up in the same way.

Using a string of diodes as a voltage regulator is a fairly common technique - see below, for instance. They will feed a constant voltage no matter what the current. Since they sit in the cable it can make installation easy in some cases. But of course for a high-current application you would use a dedicated regulator, probably with a heat sink...

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/diode/diode_4.html

Cheers Doug, now I'm beginning to understand what you mean. Get some rest, you've earned it.
Good night and thanks for the help.
Cheers Colin.

"Will a UBEC do the same job"
Yes Colin. That's exactly what they are designed to do.👍
One point!
If you use the UBEC also for the RX supply then disconnect the red leads from RX to any ESCs (propulsion and thruster) which also have a BEC!
In my destroyer refit I intend to use such a UBEC solely for special functions; light circuits, gun turrets, sound module, smoker etc.
RX supply will probably be a separate battery and all ESC BECs will be disconnected.
Put simply; I don't like to have all my eggs in one UBEC basket😉
A 1.4m hull can carry that setup. I appreciate it might not be so easy in a smaller, cramped hull, where space / weight are at a premium and the ESC BECs are useful.
You say you have "loads of room" though👍
I had thought of folding the diode strings, then considered that any heat generated at high currents would be concentrated in one place.
Same applies to the single chip (3 legs) TO-220 style Voltage regulators, but they are easy to fit heat sinks to.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Have a bang good acct.
Cheers Colin.

Thank you for your help.
Thats not a problem as I have loads of room.
Will a UBEC do the same job, if so I have 7 on the way.
Cheers Colin.

"...But for 6V to the ESC you'd need nine of 'em in series!😮
Gonna make for a long stiff cable!..."

You halve the length by putting 4 on one line, 5 on the other. Total length perhaps 4 inch. You could probably get away with 8 diodes - and it's common to have a longish cable to ancillary motors anyway. The cable I showed in the photo drops 3.5v, and it's 3.5" long, including the connectors...

Nearly forgot, age creeping in again😐
Ref the radar Colin.
Agree with Martin.
The radar on my destroyer trundles around at about 1 rev/sec and runs forever an a day on a D size alkaline battery😊
😎

Hi JB,
Those Henge jobs look pretty good (as long as they aren't made o Stone 😁😂)
Will have a shufti round for a coupla those👍

Hi Colin,
I think to get the best out of the bow thruster a little ESC is essential for smooth slow speed manoeuvring, just like the originals I've seen in various docus about building huge cruise ships, tankers and container ships.
The switch and servo idea is great though if you want to use up some spare non-reversible aircraft ESCs 👍
DG's diode idea is great if you only want to drop a few volts.
But for 6V to the ESC you'd need nine of 'em in series!😮
Gonna make for a long stiff cable!

Resistors are fine for a fixed load of very small current; e.g 20mA for a string of LEDs.
But a higher current variable load, such as an ESC and motor, brings two problems.
1 The voltage drop across the resistor is directly proportional to the current flowing through it:
V=IxR. So as the load current drops so does the voltage across the resistor and the volts applied to the load (ESC) rise!

2 Heat! The power loss dropping from 12V to 6V has to go somewhere (Law of conservation of energy!) so it comes out as heat🔥 The higher the current the larger the volt drop and the more heat is generated 🔥🔥 P(watts)= IxV
Say your thruster uses 1A at full bore in the wet stuff; that's 6W which means a pretty fat 6 Ohm ceramic block resistor!
Cheers, Doug 🤓😎

If you can Colin, try and start a free acct with Ali Express or Banggood, they are quite often a lot cheaper than EBay for the same items.
JB