Re - As for "air collector" I suspect that the amount of air being pushed into the container by the fan .

Probably correct in one part Mike, but it works fine in the open air (only a 6v fan,- see vid More Smoker Stuff 2, - 20 days ago), I think it just doesn't get enough air in this application as the motor space is not very well vented and also as you said, not enough air getting out the other end.
JB

I don't have any pics right now.

See the post I made about the fan specifcation

I mount the vape tank in a box, the vape outlet exits through the box and the fan vented to the outside world

.

Hi,

I apologise - I gave an incorrect link previously - should have been this one

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/axial-fans/8621595/

Yes they are expensive £19 (I am using 9 of eveything in my build - the ££££ - ouch) but when you power them up you realise why - they are unlike many fans you will come across - they have some real grunt and the air volume they move is awesome - leave them running face down on a desk and they will almost take off!!!

Spec - an Air Flow 36m³/h and high static pressure (they can move static air quickly from startup =grunt)

Many fans (computer type - black case) have 4 wires. This normally indicates that they have an inbuilt speed controller and often a speed sensor output.

The inbuilt speed controller uses a square wave signal @ 25khz - you vary the duty cycle of the PWM signal to change the speed - this is an industry standard spec

You may well hear you computer fan run at different speeds - that will be using the system described above

So the catch is how you get your 25khz control signal - I use a standard microprocessor board to supply the 25khz signal. I am able to remotely change the speed of the fan to shape how much smoke is exiting the system

.

Hi G6, the fan you mention seems a little expensive, and you say it has an inbuilt controller but I coudn't see it in the advert, or was it the one further down the page? and I'm not sure I understand the 25Khz PWM signal bit

Martin, I can still adjust the incoming air volume via the ring as my aluminium addition is a press fit on that ring, However I so far have just used it at 100% as the volume of smoke can be adjusted by varying the power side of the unit.
As for "air collector" I suspect that the amount of air being pushed into the contaner by the fan is far in excess or the volume of air that can be pushed through the exit pipes. This being the difference between a fan and a pump, a pump will pressurise a container, whereas a fan will not and therefore the smoke is forced back through the fan.
just a thought

Any pics of fan air 'collector' into smoker? I tried using a 12v fan and once everything was closed in I found that smoke came back through the fan ( any back pressure, ie long hoses lack of air in, causes fan cavitation and lack of thrust, letting built up smoke back into the boat.
JB

Re - With all of these smoker experiments i have noticed that there has been no mention

Same with mine Martin, it's run fully open for max airflow. The alloy tank version I made just has the coil on a bracket so no coil base or tank base, (very simple and seems to work just as well really)
Air from the pump just goes into the box and comes out through the element which is up against the exit pipe stub (comes inside a few mm).
JB

Just a quick note - the fan speed control is a 25khz PWM signal - nothing to do with RC ESC!

.

Many thanks for the Link K, 👍
😎

Yes - I have mine 100% open to get maximum air flow.

I can then control the fan speed to control air flow

The fan I use is a wee beastie - would not go amisss in a hovercraft - the fan has an inbuilt speed controller

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/axial-fans/7815048/

.

Hi Guys,
With all of these smoker experiments i have noticed that there has been no mention that on a lot of the Vape tanks there is an adjustable air inlet normally an adjustable ring on the bottom of the tank.
This allows more or less air to pass over the coil.
So i assume that you guys have this set to wide open.

Martin555.

Some fancy electronics comming up? Im just going to use the battery pack and electronics (less the aluminium case) for varying the power/volume of smoke available.
I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of your mechanisms, particullaly for moving the barrels up and down/round and round (a pictureis better than a 1000 words)

Re - That is a very nice unit
I could be making it for a 3 engined MTB or PT but I'm not Martin. 😁 The smoke was only coming out the front pipe (filler) as I had not packed the cotton in at that stage (or capped it) and was just running it for a short time with the coil soaked, to see how it would go. The filler is above the coil .
JB

exactly right, Im just making the exit device which will take the water and smoke out, water through the middle and smoke around the outside of the water, Ill post some pictures asap.

Hi Michael,
So am i right in saying that on the slide filling top you will pop on a tube with a "Y" joint to send the smoke to two exhaust outlets ?

Martin555.

Hi Martin the unit will be permanently fixed its easily filled in position through the slide top and the amount required for my boat is minimal and one fill will last ages. I just thought its was an easy solution to the smoking subject.

Hi Jb,
That is a very nice unit.
I think i have lost the plot! why have you got three smoke output's.
I understand two for the exhaust.
Or are you making this unit for another secret project.

Martin555.

(This is an update to the original post.) This is the model Y smoker and is a lot smaller than The model X. I was just setting it up to take a vid when the voltage regulator spat the dummy ( think it blew a power reg) causing the full 12v from the batt to go straight through to the smoker control and causing bad smoke to leak from the 3.7V electrics. Up to that point it had been working perfectly, with the air pump (ex HSL large water/air pump) being varied to reduce or increase smoke.

The battery V was set to 3.5V using one regulator (fizzer) and the pump on another battery and regulator for the test. I was also using the vape module regulator as a safety for the coil (which in the event did work) The main regulators I'm using are supposed to handle 5A (probably Chinese Amps - like their shoe sizes😁) but I think I'll have to go up more in amps for the next one I buy. I've had no trouble with these on pumps etc but they obviously don't like more than 2-3A.

I've removed the vape electrics and its now wired straight to the back plate and center pin, working well again using another regulator (might buy them by the gross). There are 2 exhausts and a filler pipe on top, and the air inlet in the end of this version, and the pics show the components in order. A small piece of 6mm f/glass heat tube sits in the end of the element and mates with the brass air tube so the air is directed into the element. Pic of it running is at 2.5V and th 12V pump running on about 4V. Feet are just more pipe material, heated, bent and glued on with pipe solvent.

The cotton wool wick is packed around the element and blocks any stray air from the pump escaping past the element to the exhaust. All the main UPVC tube sections are a push fit and are not glued so as to make servicing easy. It doesn't seem to leak (yet) as the end caps are a good tight fit. A small foil tray might be needed inside the model to catch any spills etc. A cap will be made for the filler as some smoke escapes from it as it is.

Pipes are std 31mm UPVC plumbing but you can use any size you desire and if necessary this can be stood up and the air pipe run through the side (like the exhausts)rather than the end. Wherever the brass 5mm pipes are fitted, I've used some extra pipe material to double the thickness and thin cyano'd the pipes in, (making them a tight press fit when drilling).
And she's now racing metallic blue as well. Hope to do the vid tomorrow, Happy smaping.
JB

Re - I use a fan to push the smoke about 1 metre from production to exit

Any pics of your fan set-up?
JB

Hi G6SWJ,
Will you start a new thread on you'r gun project, and a build log on you'r ship.?

The 555 in my username dose not apply to anything really, but it was mentioned about the famous 555 timer chip.
But in my case it is more like OLD TIMER LOL!!!

Martin555.

Martin555,

Thank you - It should be a rather special model when it all comes together

Pic attached of the real turrets in development

PS does the 555 in your username signify an 8 legged beastie?

.

Hi G6SWJ,
I have just been looking at you'r Gun experiments on utube.
You are doing a great job.
Keep up the good work.

Martin555.

Hi G6SWJ,
Those guns look very interesting, looking forward to seeing you'r progress.

Martin555.

Hi Michael,
I like that idea.
I am assuming that you would just fill the tank with liquid then screw it in position and it's ready to go.

Martin555.

JB try powdered charcoal - that's actually what produces the black smoke in gunpowder. it has to be crushed and powdered very well otherwise it will be "Soot gets on your eyes"

Hi Martin555,

Yes I intend to have smoke pouring out of 9 barrels, which will be able to fire independantly or in groups, selected on the fly remotely - here is a mock up of one turret. Sound and light will also be part of the animation.

It will even simulate the puff of smoke at the end of a firing sequence as the barrel is cleared /blown through

The smoke production will be remote in the hull with a large reservoir of liquid (500-1000ml) so I can "smoke" all day!

I will also be able to remotely change the smoke volume as on a breezy day, to get a half decent effect more smoke will be required.

An interesting project

.

I thought I might try the simplest way to produce smoke and just reverse the “vapours” way of using a standard E cig unit. I was given a couple of units which were no longer needed and decide to modify the unit. I machined an aluminium ring which fitted around the air intake at the bottom; the ring has a groove machined internally to allow the air to circulate around the dual intake. A 4mm drilled hole which is drilled into the groove has a 4mm brass tube inserted. The brass tube connects a small pump via a silicon tube which blows air into the device. The battery pack will have to be modified to fit in the boat but this was just to prove the system. It produces more than enough smoke for my crash tender which will just have a scale amount of exhaust smoke, hopefully. I intend piping the smoke through the rear using a custom made water/smoke exit unit which keeps the two components separate, watch this space

Hi G6SWJ,

That certainly belts the smoke out.
Here is a little video of some big guns firing.
I assume you are going to achieve this in the end.



Martin555.

Hi Martin555,

When I get a chance I will take some pics - this video gives more idea of the volume of smoke available

.

Hi,
I would love to see more of your experiment.

Martin555.

Hi Guys,

I use a fan to push the smoke about 1 metre from production to exit

I can vary the coil temperature, fan speed and duration to "shape" the smoke cloud

Regards
.

Re - I think you need a Mince pie and a drop of whisky for the pain LOL!!

I'm now going for a coffee and a lie down Martin, (and perhaps a wee VSOP) - be doing some more thunkin 2morrow, (it being 4.04 Ante Meridian right now in our neck of the Southern Pacific ocean/Tasman Sea)
Evenin'
JB

Jb,
Just had a thought, "mixing rubber in the liquid"
Unfortunately it will not work it way up the wick so maybe you will have to drip it on to a nice hot coil.

Martin555.

Jb,
I think you need a Mince pie and a drop of whisky for the pain LOL!!

Martin555.

Jb,
I wonder if you could add some Rubber dust to the liquid!!!
That might make black smoke.

Martin555.

Re - Hi Jb,Yes they are clever little circuits.

You could use them for switching lights randomly, waving crew member or anything which used a max of say 40W? and needed to only operate for 15 secs, or with he present smoker set ups for start-up smoke auto off timing (just need to hold on and forget) ie,- start engine, water and smoke, engine warms up, smoke stops automatically
oww, my brain hurts!😁😀 the pain, the pain. (my brain really is lost in space)😂😮
JB

Re - All we need now is Black Smoke!😉

Don't worry Doug, still thinking on that, Was thinking of burning diesel in a smoke coil, - probably be grey though. Brake fluid burns really white but takes the paint off your wheel arches if you're not quick to wash it off (burnouts in the 70s experience)😊 diesel is similar, slightly grey😀 Whatever burns black is going to be messy, as it usually means lots of carbon being produced!

Back in 78 when I was working on Norfolk Island, the hobby shop across the road from the hotel was owned by a retired industrial chemist who would have been just the person to ask.
anyone know of any to ask these days?, - mind you, I asked for some good old orange Merthiolate Tincture at a chemist a few years back and he asked me what it was!!?? - don't know what they're teaching them these days!
Also asked for normal plain old Iodine and had a similar reaction. Everything you buy these days is the old stuff watered down and given another name. The old stuff would always cure you or kill you,- everyone's protecting their transoms these days! That's what I liked about living in Fiji, they still gave you the good old 100% stuff.
JB

Hi Jb,
Yes they are clever little circuits.
Just to get you'r brain in to working overtime what else do you think you could use these little circuits for ?

Martin555.

Re - Following your development with interest - this is where I got to..

Looks good, what are you using to push the smoke?
JB

Re - Hi Jb,
The Timeout part of the circuit is set for something like fifteen, twenty seconds

Hi Martin, took a few mins to figure that out, quite clever really (the machine, not me😁) Quite a technical little device. Battery might not be as good as I thought but will try charging it and see, (dropped off in voltage today, red lights flashing apparently means low batt) I can always just cut off all the electronics and plug it into my voltage reg with a simple pos and neg wire and run it that way through a remote switch (same as I did with the HSL smoke try out ).
JB

Hi G6SWJ,
That looked interesting.
I would imagine that for Gun smoke you will need a short blast of smoke of about One second or less!

Martin555.

That’s effective. Please tell us more about the setup you used for that.

Graham93

Following your development with interest - this is where I got to....

All we need now is Black Smoke!😉
Preferably without setting the funnel on fire to achieve it 🔥😁
😎

Hi Graham,
I admit i do like all of these smoker experiments.
eventually we could end up with a nice simple plug in module.

Martin555.

Plenty there to keep you busy JB. And mostly for free👍 Looking forward to seeing it operating.

I’ve just acquired another H2 vape tank and coil today, but it did cost me £2.35.☹️ Might post how to adapt it once I have some photos.

Graham93

Hi Jb,
The Timeout part of the circuit is set for something like fifteen, twenty seconds so it might cut out the smoke when you don't want it too.

As for the activation switch you could run some wires from the circuit board to a separate switch that could be operated by a servo that operates something else.

Martin555.