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    40" Seaplane Tender, new build
    by jbkiwi ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฟ ( Warrant Officer)
    ๐Ÿ“ฃ










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    7 Posts 32 Comments 0 Photos 19 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build G
    1 day ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Final coat of resin done and a smidgen of filler where I had to sand through the cloth, (bubbles) and it's on to sanding again and starting to paint. Props arrived today from China- Ali Express (6 days,-not bad at all!) These props are really good and durable and come in a variety of blades, sizes, and in LH and RH. I bought 25mm L & R and 30mm L & R ($8 NZ all up) and worth every penny. Very little cleaning up to do on them. I used these (25mm) on my HSL as well and they are perfect for the job. Not sure of the pitch as they don't show it (40/50 maybe) but they have a nice cupped front edge and good scale shape.
    To give an idea,- the 36" 6lb HSL has 2x 2845 2000kv inrunners on 2s 2200 MaH Lipos and with these 25mm props will hit around 12-15 mph silly speed flat out.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build G
    20 hours ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Jb,
    That hull is looking good.
    Nice job, well done.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build G
    19 hours ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    It's taken a few hours of scratching but its nearly there. Sanding's not as much fun as it used to be, (getting a bit of arthritis in me old age)
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build F
    3 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Finished fairing hull and correcting chine curve. Glassed hull tonight using 6oz cloth and West System epoxy resin. Took a few hours to dry even though I was using fast hardener due to cold weather, and when still flexible, trimmed off the excess cloth. Will give it a day and de-wax and sand it before giving it another coat of resin, then it will be on to sanding, filling and fairing again. Hull weighed 720g before glassing and 920g after ( probably end up around 1kg filled and painted)

    hardener
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build F
    3 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Jb,
    Nice bit of laminating.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build F
    2 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks Martin, I find that if your framing is ok, and you use medium balsa (plank grain lengthways, you seem to come out with a much truer shape to f/glass than trying to torture sheets of balsa or ply round corners, (pretty much do it the same as a 100% boat and you can't go too far wrong) Managed to bring the chine down at the bow using filler (which took the most time)
    I'll re-do the frame patterns to fix this problem and do a few other dimension changes and frame positions in case anyone else might want to have a crack at this boat, once I've sorted everything out. I'll try and do it so I can email 100% frame outlines etc plus a bit of info to enable anyone with a bit of modelling skill to knock up a hull. As I said before, I'm making this up as I go along so it won't be perfect, but at least it should be a reasonable 'stand off' (long way off) scale model.๐Ÿ˜‚
    Glassing is the fun easy bit! (check out my last 100% big glassing job on my 12ft 70s racing dinghy) I enjoy glassing, as it means you are sealing in all the hard work you've put in to building, repairing, restoring etc and it's going to be there for years to come.

    sheets
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    A bit more fairing work and sorting out the chine near the bow. F1 and F2 need modifying to get a more gradual curve towards the bow (bit late but nothing a few shovels of filler won't fix (just plastered on another batch to blend in the flare). F2 also should go back slightly as bow looks a bit 'full' at that point.
    Forgot to mention earlier that the center top 'spine' (10x6) spruce is glued into the frames with keel to help keep everything straight while fitting stringers etc. This can be cut out where access is needed when hull is complete (see pics). Makes a good strong handle while working on the hull also. Chine looks like it has a slight 'hook' but it's a tropical delusion caused by the bottom getting flatter towards the stern.

    shovels
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    That is a great looking hull, and I like the curves on the transom.
    If that was me making that hull I would have to purchase the filler by the lorry load LOL!

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Don't be too hard on yourself Martin, I've nearly plastered on 1kg so far of a light silica filler, - most of it as usual ends up in the vacuum ! Better to use too much than too little is my filling motto. I should have used 2mm planks as I did with the HSL which would have given me a bit more 'meat' to sand off, but I went with 1.5mm this time and have had to be a bit less aggressive (although I did use my belt sander to rough down the deck framing).
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    I have just had a thought (and yes it did hurt LOL!) I wonder if all of the filler dust could be reused?
    Maybe it could be mixed with some white wood glue and reapplied.
    I suppose as an experiment you could try it on a bit of scrap and if it works ok that will save a bit of cash!

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    "I wonder if all of the filler dust could be reused?"
    Hi Martin,
    If at all you'd probably need a two part resin to set it.
    The 'dust' having been 'cured' once already would be more or less inert.
    So literally just a filler material.
    I used that trick once for an 'invisible' repair of a terracotta figurine for Gisela. 'Is 'ead 'ad fawllen orf โ˜น๏ธ๐Ÿ˜ญ
    I filed down some scraps of broken terracotta and mixed it with clear two part epoxy glue.
    Worked a treat and the figurine is still intact after several years on her terrace๐Ÿ˜Š
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž
    PS Now go and lie down in a quiet and dark room for a little while Martin ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ’ค

    treat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    LOL!
    It could be still worth a try!
    And yes you are right this less older guy needs a rest after all that thinking LOL!

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Not a bad idea Martin (even if it did hurt) could collect it and add it to resin for internal hull filleting. I've found that resin tends to be too hard to sand from balsa (even with micro balloons etc) as the fairing material needs to be softer than the wood you are filling. There is a nice filler specially made for balsa which maybe available from your local hobby shop which is made in the US called Model Lite (see pic) It is available from Tower Hobbies at around 12 USD plus probably a leg (and maybe an arm )for postage. We can get it here but it's about 25 NZD hence my cheaper 6 NZD filler.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Hi Doug, did the same thing, saving sanding dust from various timber types and mixing with resin to use as a matching filler on my 100% boat restos - see Mahogany rudder stock - (made from my late mothers prized 1960s African Mahogany dining table) on my 15ft Schock day sailer (used that method on a number of different timbers all over the boat). Recycling at its' most useful .

    filler
    dining table
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Many years ago I used to mix French chalk and dope as a filler for balsa wood.
    Very easy to sand down.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Might try that sometime Martin sounds good. I buy proper Randolf brand (USA) butyrate aircraft dope from a local 100% aircraft accessory/parts co by the quart, (about 50 NZD as against 20 for 250ml from the hobby shop) so next time I'll try some. Have used it with talc (now I think of it - had completely forgotten DUH !). Good for fine finish on the plane models pre painting. Thanks for reminding me!

    aircraft dope
    plane models
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Motors I'll be trying in the ST are either the 'Gool' (black motor) 540 (replaceable ball bearings and brushes and adjustable timing) or the Feilun boat spare 540 motor complete with mount and cooling. Also bought 4x stainless 250mm driveshafts with ball bearings ( $8 NZ on a big discount on Banggood) remains to be seen how good the bearings are. Will be running twin motors through twin car ESCs.

    ball bearings
    boat
    driveshafts
    car
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi John,
    Nice looking motors.
    I think that the speed controller that you show in the photos has a built in brake.
    You will not be able to go from forward to reverse without having to move the TXstick back a couple of times.
    I may be wrong but I think I tried them in my HMS Cottesmore then quickly replaced them because of that reason.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Correct Martin๐Ÿ‘
    Only 'Forward with Brake' and Forward/Reverse with Brake' โ˜น๏ธ

    Reverse with Brake
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Doug,
    I don't believe it I actually got something right!
    That's made my day.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Who's fishing for compliments then?๐Ÿ˜‰
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    The way the last two week have going for my I needed something to cheer me up.
    I will PM you.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    ๐Ÿ˜ฎ?
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    They do have a brake function which can be turned off (correction-almost, to a point that it's not really a brake more a dead spot/center,-stronger on the forward only+brake) and they are not too bad once you do that (by jumper).
    You are correct Martin in that they sometimes don't go into reverse, and you have to just flick the throttle forward and back (about .5 sec) and they will switch.
    Sometimes if you go to neutral and wait about 2 secs they will switch, (not sure why they do it but I always drive accordingly.) No problem going straight from rev to forward though.
    Could be I'm only using 2s lipos and they need a bigger voltage to perform better although they are similar on 3s.
    The main thing for me is the sound units sometimes lag behind the throttle, (maybe they cause the problem as my Maiami ASR has 1 and no sound unit, and you can go backwards and forwards all day),-might even be that you get a few 'Friday' ones in the orders (I have 6, and some seem better than others)
    If you have a look at my vid of the Thornycroft MTB (twin motors 1 sound unit) you'll see what I mean about the sound lag near the end. All in all for $9 bucks they are pretty reliable.

    Same thing happens with my 100 series HSL but it has a twin brushless set-up and twin sound units but on the bench everything works perfectly for both types.???
    Hope I haven't partially unmade anyones' day!?
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi,
    I think you are right about "Friday" speed controllers.
    I prefer the control to be more responsive just in case.
    I like scale speeds or should I say more realistic speeds and I like the idea that I could get out of trouble quicker than I got into it.
    After spending many months and sometimes years building these models it would be a shame to have damage due to a slight lack of control.
    However I do admire the skills of the Guys that control there fast speed boats
    Well that is my opinion.

    Martin.

    models
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    You're right Martin, I'm the same with scale boat speeds. It would be nice if these were a bit more responsive (certainly if you had a heavier boat such as a warship you would definitely need better control) but the brake/center although mildly annoying, makes you drive a bit more carefully, (scale like) near the dock/banks etc, haven't managed to ram anything hard yet (touch wood) reminds me of the PT109 movie where they missed reverse and smashed through the dock.
    I could buy much better ESCs but for the huge difference in the cost of twin ESCs in 2 boats (maybe 4 soon -the ST and maybe converting the Maiami to twin) I can buy 8 of these against 1 good boat ESC and put up with a minor annoyance. BTW which ESCs have you used in your boats ?
    PS, found some specs for these cheapies, are these the same as what you had ?
    John

    ESCs
    boat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    All seems like a P-in-the-A to me JB๐Ÿค”
    Brake force zero OK. But the thing still seems reluctant to go directly to reverse.
    I'd just as soon spring a few bob/cents more for a really fully programmable ESC, such as the Hobbywing Quicrun series.

    Also I don't like the Low Voltage so called Protection Function at all!
    Quote from the User Manual: "For NiMH battery packs, if the voltage of the whole NiMH battery pack is higher than 9.0V but lower than 12V, it will be considered as a 3S Lipo; If it is lower than 9.0V, it will be considered as a 2S Lipo. For example, if the NiMH battery pack is 8.0V, and the threshold is set to 2.6V/Cell, it is considered as a 2S Lipo, and the low-voltage cut-off threshold for this NiMH battery pack is 2.6*2=5.2V."
    1 What's an 8.0V NiMh? 6.66666r cells!?
    2 Discharged voltage of an NiMh cell is 1.1V. Going below this starts to permanently damage the cell. Thus minimum voltage for this fictitious '8V NiMh' would be 6.6666r x 1.1=7.333r V.
    So if you use NiMh batteries this ESC will try to drive them to destruction and leave your boat up the creek w/o a paddleโ˜น๏ธ.
    With a decent ESC (a la Quicrun!) you can select LiPo or NiMh, and manually tell it how many cells the pack has to be sure the protection works 'as advertised' at the correct voltage.๐Ÿ˜Š

    Yer pays yer spondulicks and yer takes yer choice!
    But this ESC would NOT be my choice for a boat. Or anything else for that matter.
    ร  chacun son goรปt ! As some might say ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Cheers, Doug

    LiPo
    Lipo
    batteries
    boat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    7 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Odd!
    The manual for that model ESC says something completely different from the 'extract' you posted above John? Must have been written by the Monty Python team!
    320A? Oh really! ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฃ
    What ever floats your boat!

    boat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    6 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    The speed controllers that I seem to stick with are Mtroniks marine same as the photo.
    I find that they are reliable, responsive, and touch wood I have never had any problems with them.

    I have fitted two of them in my HMS Cottesmore.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    They probably do have a brake of sorts, but it must be quite a weak one as the motors don't snap to a stop as you can make some do. The 'manual' is one which is shown with those ESCs but I never trust the info and go with 'user experience'. The 320A is Chinglish for 32A according to reviews, and the 160A is no doubt 16A. If they ever give any trouble I may replace them but it's only a 2 sec p in the a ๐Ÿ˜ฎ
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    6 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    These have jumpers to select between NiMh and Lipo so I'm not sure if your info applies to these (most likely does, haven't seen your info before,- depends on who's selling them I suppose) but I have never had any probs, and can run the boats till I get sick of it and still have 3.8 v/cell left using 2200 Mah LiPos (1 per motor). Also am using the BECs in them for the RECs as I have very little draw,- being only REC and 1 servo to worry about. I use small props and run them at high speed to unload the motors (the brushless 2000kv in-runner motors in the HSL only draw about 3-4A flat out in a static test which translates to about 2.5-3 moving, giving a good hr or more of cruising round.) The MTB and Maiami use 12v 380 motors (15000 rpm) and 22mm 3 blade props which draw practically nothing while chugging around, and give slow maneuvering while spinning above stuttering speed, but will still run at scale speeds. Being cheap, if any smoke leaks out of these little rice cans you haven't lost much. Depending on performance I have 4 nice little 25A Trackstar programmable ESCs and 2 Ocday 25A programmable ESCs to use with brushless motors (the Trackstars being really nice little units with lots of features) the Ocdays not so much
    Ocday (& other names) programme card shown). PS I only use LiPos. PPS Haven't tried tasting them yet, probably be ok with a nice sauce Bordelaise peut-รชtre ?

    Mah LiPos
    motors
    units
    Ocday 25A
    rice cans
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
    2 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Hi Doug, just found a similar brushed ESC on AliXpress which has instructions which seem to better describe the actions of the ones we were discussing (if you can understand Chinglish) also have seen review on HK for a Hobywing ESC with a similar action (Rowan did a review I saw also, and was not happy with the performance, - thought I was onto a good thing for a moment) https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbywing-quicrun-60a-2s-3s-wate...
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbywing-quicrun-60a-2s-3s-waterproof-brushed-esc-for-1-10.html
    ๐Ÿ”—
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build C
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Hull planking and fairing finished, but had to drop the up-sweep of the chine at the bow by about 1/4" (using filler) as the 1+2 frames chine positions shown in the drawing were too high. The bottom faces of the 1+2 frames need re shaping to bring the chine down to the correct progressive curve. Bit late now but is looking ok, apart from a slight hump at frame 2. Once glassed I'll work it a bit more. Always hard to see what the hull shape will be till you cover it.

    frames
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    frames
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build C
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi John,
    I am sure that after you have done a bit more tinkering it will not notice.
    Good work, keep it up.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build C
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks Martin, if you look in my 'harbour' you will see the 100 series HSL I finished a year or so ago which was built in an almost identical way (drawings were also from same Model Boats mag from 76 ) and was just basic. Luckily we still have both ex RNZAF examples still running in NZ (4 seaplane tenders (one restored in the RNZAF museum in Christchurch & Jaguar,-a private import) plus the 64 foot 100 series HSL (modified) in Auckland. Jaguar is being restored at the moment. The seaplane tenders were used by our RNZAF (Hobsonville/Whenuapai) marine section Sunderland base here in Auckland and Wellington. They were also used at the RNZAF seaplane base in Fiji (Laucala Bay - Sunderlands & Catalinas) during the war along with Maiami ASR boats and a number of other Airforce launches. BTW, managed to get everything in the blog section thanks to you and Doug.
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build B
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Finished planking hull, now started on fairing it. Planks (1.5mm balsa) were just pulled in to the center stringers by clamps and thick cyno'd to those first, then once set, top and bottom ends of the planks cyno'd. When dry, a bead of balsa glue run along every stringer to keep everything in place. Once faired, it will be glassed and once done the inside will be worked on. Deck will be 1.5mm marine ply, but I will have to resist the urge to stain it, as the subject boat had painted decks.

    bead decks
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    bead
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    bead decks
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build B
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi John,
    I must admit I like the shape of that hull.
    Well done.

    Martin.
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    ๐Ÿ“ 40" Seaplane Tender, new build
    7 days ago by jbkiwi ( Warrant Officer)
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    Just started a 40" model of a 41'6" seaplane tender. I have been wanting to do one for years and now that my 36" 100 series 64ft HSL is done I was getting itchy fingers. Started with drawings from the 1976 Model Boats mag (part of the series on ASRs they did back then) which show frame shapes and positions, and enlarged them to 40" (A-O paper after rearranging the images on the A4 primary enlargement used as printing 'pattern' to enable max size on A-O. )
    I did the same with the HSL and with a bit of fiddling got all the frames to line up nicely to shape. You have to be a bit inventive building this way regarding framing material etc, but it's possible if you have previous building experience. I found with these particular drawings that the frames were not drawn with identical profiles (left and right sides) so I had to create 1 side and flip it for the opposite side. I also had to create an extra frame between 2+3 as there was no real support for the stringers without it.
    The front top deck frame is cut from 3mm ply, as are the frames,-(ply is from packaging of a big Toyota Landcruiser axle recall which was done during my time at Toyota, which is 3 ply, very light, and perfect for this type of job, and not to mention, free!) I borrowed this frame method from the old 60s Vic Smeed MTB plan and it makes a good strong bow section to work with (used it on the HSL also.)
    Ply longerons are run through from transom to F2 with hardwood stiffening between transom and F4. Chine, gunwale and mid stringers are 4mmx2mm Beech, bottom stringers are 3x3 beech with mid stringer doubled. I may have to put extra stringers in the sides but that will depend on how the planks lie in the flares. planking will be 1.5mm balsa as the flares are quite pronounced especially in the bow area, and you just can't get sheets to go round the compound curves.
    Hull will be glassed and faired when finished and sealed with thin resin inside once everything is ready. Cabin is reasonably easy but takes a bit of working out and fiddling with due to lack of any plan, but it seems to be working out reasonably with the use of photos etc.
    The model is going to be a representation of a tender which was imported privately in the 50s by a doctor in the Milford sounds area here in the South Island of NZ, to enable him to visit patients, due to there being water access only in many of the remote areas. I have modified the drawings to represent this boat, which included changing the mast and removing the rear oval port and replacing it with a small round port, (not sure why this was changed, maybe an interior modification made the large port unnecessary ?) The boat ended up in Auckland at some stage and was owned by a family not far from my place for a number of years (pic is on the hard at our local yacht club in the 70s, - colour pic is from a friends super 8 movie taken from his boat, on an outing together with Jaguars owner 60s/70s). It is now apparently back in the South Island being restored.
    The model will use brushed 540 motors with twin ESCs etc but still a way off yet. I have to work out a way to make the cabin removable either with or without the rear cockpit, but more likely it will be a 2 piece job. It's a bit of a make it up as you go project.

    Model Boats frames boat sheets Landcruiser motors ESCs
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build
    7 days ago by Martin555 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi,
    Well done.
    I will be following with great interest.
    Keep up the good work.


    Martin.
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