@ChrisF .

The difference is in the name.

An Abrafile is basically a completely round fine file, and this is why it is able to cut (or file) equally well in any direction.

This construction gives a very fine clean cut - valued by jewellers and anyone that needs or wants to cut very fine detail in an enclosed space.

Abrafiles can be particularly helpful when working in tight spaces or totally enclosed spaces that needs the file to be inserted through a drill hole before being re-connected to the saw frame……not unlike cutting a window aperture with a scroll saw.

I have “hand-held” an Abrafile when I needed to make a small cut-out and it did work, but a suitably shaped Swiss file would have probably been as good or better as the Abrafile works best when under tension in a saw frame.

I have yet to test the spiral wound saw blade construction of the spiral fret saw, but I can imagine that can take a much bigger cut but may not be quite so suitable for very fine work?

Soon I will be able to test them both and hope that I can use the spiral wound blades to cut as well in every direction as the Abrafile, but I am not expecting to be able to achieve as fine a cut or for it to work as well with thin materials or fine metals .

Both blades have their uses, but sadly Abrafiles are not generally available any more, and I am not even sure if they are manufactured any more?

Bob.

@EdW I have just seen the spiral blades that are for sale on Amazon.

They are a different construction, but they look like they will work in a similar way………and they are available !

The Abrafiles are a fully round form and are much finer and don’t have the comparably large visible teeth on them.

I will take a picture of them when they arrive for comparison purposes.

Bob.

A while back I ordered a diamond coated fretsaw Blade from China. I reckon it was a CON as it never arrived. the low price should have set warning bells off Col

Spiral Fretsaw Blades
The ones I use are £8 for 12 from Amazon but only fit a hand fret saw with screw clamp blade holders. I hope to make adapters to fit them in my power fret saw.

@ChrisF

The price won’t be quite so bad per blade, but they always have been more expensive than a regular toothed blade.

When I get my small “stash” delivered, I will check to see how many I have that are in good/new/unused condition and work out how much they work out at each.

If anyone would like to give one a try, a packet of those adapters will allow them to be clipped into a fret saw/coping saw/piercing saw type of frame.

https://ebay.io/m/asf9Fr

Bob.

@zooma I did have a look at the adapters you mentioned earlier and was a little surprised at the cost of the Abrafiles themselves.

Last night I was able to find and buy a small stash of genuine Abrafiles.

Anyone searching for these online will no doubt be a bit saddened and surprised by the rarity and the cost of the odd few that are being traded - usually in packets or part packets at around £35 including post.

Those of us that have used them before realise that they were never as cheap to buy as other types of fret saw blade, coping saw blades or piercing saw blade, but they were very useful and with careful use they would last a long time.

I had to buy more of them than I need, so when they arrive, I will count them and measure the length and offer some of them to anyone on here that would like to buy the odd one or two without having to buy so many of them at a time.

If nobody wants any of them, I will be pleased to keep them and make good use of them. I had learned to live without Abrafiles (I have not been able to buy any for a long time), but I do remember how much easier it was to cut complex shapes with them.

Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures if them when they arrive .

Bob.

Talk of round blades prompted me to look for mine. It's a 6"/150mm PermaGrit one with tungsten carbide grit welded to a steel rod. It has the pin ends so can be used in a Junior hacksaw. They do one with the round/loop ends but that's 12" for standard hacksaws. But these are available from elsewhere from other manufacturers so will get one for use in my coping saw. I've got a piercing saw frame as well somewhere, which as you say is probably better.

Abrafiles.

There was a mention on here about Abrafiles - a circular shaped blade that can cut in any direction.

These very useful blades used to be available in three types, but the “medium” was the only types that I ever used, although the “fine” would have been helpful if they were available at the time.

To fit these Abrafiles into a fret saw frame or a coping saw frame, a pair of adaptors has to be fitted into the frame to hold them.

Probably the best frame to use them is in a piercing saw frame. This is what I used my Abrafiles in for cutting out delicate shapes in thin metals.

Like the Abrafiles, these frame adapters have become very hard to find, but last night I happened to chance upon an advert for somebody that has a small stash of new and unused ones still in the makers packets.

These can be found with a search on eBay UK for anyone that would like to own a set before they all disappear.

Bob.

@ChrisF I don’t have a table saw as I find that my bandsaw and scroll saw (and my Tamiya razor saw) can cut anything that I need when building or restoring model power boats, but I am sure that they are probably better for cutting some things if I had room for one on my workbench.

As a matter of interest, I also find that the Permagrit range of tools are really handy, and they are my “go-to” choice for final shaping before sanding, 👍

Bob.

@zooma In the end it comes down to what you are happy with and I'm very happy using my scroll saw. Whilst I have been building more than one model at a time on occasions and cut out lots of parts I enjoy doing it and so far it's only worked out at less than one a year so the time, whatever saw is used isn't that great. I can cut the frames, keel and doublers etc. out pretty quickly and accurately anyway, so as long as it's a power saw, then fine. I have had to use a hand fret saw on a couple of occasions and that is slow! What does take time is sanding down to the lines, especially when using ply, which is most of the time. My PermaGrit blocks get a real workout.

@zooma

In my work area, a bench drill press, scroll saw, bench 1” belt sander, and a bench 3wheel bandsaw are my main tools.

For larger work the 15” throat two wheel General bandsaw, bench Table-saw, bench Thickness planner are available in the garage.

I agree the table-saw is needed for ripping hardwood, making thin strips for strapping, and cutting plywood sheets into more manageable sizes which can be made smaller using the smaller machines.

I was fortunate to purchase quality machines before retiring from teaching wood shop. It wasn’t until after retirement that I began using the tools for building model boats.

@ChrisF I agree that a scroll saw has its uses, and I have one of those orange coloured Hegnar ones that I use for cutting out window apertures etc where it does a very good job and saves me using my old 1950’s Hobbies fret saw……which I still use now and again - just to keep my hand in..!

But cutting out every keel, bulkhead, doubler and other component parts with a fret saw would drive me crazy - it’s about as exciting as watching paint dry, and probably just as slow !

Using the correct saw for the right application is the way to go as far as I am concerned.

I use the scroll saw for delicate cut-outs in enclosed areas where I don’t want to add a “lead-in” cut to gain access (although with a fine blade this can also be done with a bandsaw).

For cutting out cabin sides, keels, doublers, aprons etc and for stripping sheet wood down to more manageable widths for cutting , the bandsaw is a far better tool to use

Some specialist jobs such as cutting strip hardwood or making triangular hardwood strakes, simply cannot be done on anything else as well (if at all). The bandsaw is the best for making strip wood of any size.

For cutting ply skins I only ever use my Tamiya razor saw as it cuts better, finer, cleaner and faster than any machine and it’s Japanese Steel blade bends to follow any curve (amazing - and quite alarming the first time I saw the amount of curvature on the blade) without snapping.

The right tool for the job will always be the one to use, if you are fortunate enough to have one.

Bob.

@zooma You can't cut closed inside areas though. When I joined the
hobby and wanted a saw I mused for quite awhile over whether to go bandsaw or scroll saw. I read many forum posts where folks were asking the same question and answers were for and against.

In the end I went for scroll saw and glad I did as for me it is ideal. I will use the bandsaw but probably once I've made some room in the garage.

The scroll saw I also bought off you - same as the one I already had - for using over at my mother's, which I never did in the end - has seen alot of use, as I alternate between the two.

Pictured, the ying and yang of scroll saws!

@ChrisF You don’t know what you are missing Chris, a bandsaw is the most useful tool for cutting model boat parts in the workshop…….and has a LOT of other uses too.

…..but if you have never used yours……you wouldn’t know what you are missing…😵‍💫

Bob……

ChrisF
I know just what you mean, I have tools that I have not used since I sold my Land Rover, and that was some 15 years ago.
I got my band saw back in 1996 but I must say that I did not use it much in the last 10 years, I just may look for one in 2027.
Fred

@Fred That was a good find and on your doorstep. I've thought about getting one in the past for cutting planks and the like but I bought pre-cut planks so I don't think I'd use it. I've got other Proxxon tools that I've never used or rarely but when I do I'm glad I've got them. Also thought about one of those disc sanders as I've spent hours sanding ply but again I've built most of my scratch builds so far so again is it worth it? Also it's going to fire sawdust around my workroom/small bedroom and I don't have room for my vacuum at the moment.

I've got a band saw that I haven't used yet (don't tell Bob/Zooma!) partly because I like using my scroll saw and it's done everything I've needed.

Chris

Hi One & All
Well I had a look on Facebook Market Place, and I found this only 5 miles up the road from me, Proxxon FET table saw at a good price, well I think so.
Fred

@RodC I think that, like anything else, it's a matter of not letting your guard down and using good techniques. I do agree that any careless, untrained, individual can buy a table saw or circular saw and get hurt, but I do feel that it is incumbent upon each of us to use good sense when using these tools. I'm always troubled when I see good, useful, items limited or eliminated because some people who should have known better abused them.

I know that, even after more than 3 decades of experience, I treat my table saw with great care. Frankly, I'm a little scared of it - and I consider that healthy. I'm always cognizant of my use of push-sticks, my body position, and simply not doing risky things.

By the way, speaking of table-saw safety, and I know it's a long time before it'll trickle down to an amateur level, but a new, and much more attractive, alternative to SawStop has recently been shown in the States. It senses when fingers are a certain distance from the blade - a distance programmable into the saw - and quickly retracts the blade into the saw. It doesn't wait for contact with the blade, does not damage the blade or require an expensive cartridge, and can be reset in seconds. Unfortunately, for now, it's being demo-d on a saw with electronic features such as power tilt and blade height that pretty much nobody wants to pay for.

@RossM I love my Proxxon Table saws. I consider it quite safe.

@RodC
THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER
First contact from the USS DALLAS to the RED OCTOBER by Captain Bart Mancuso of the Dallas

@Fred Fred, where is this excerpted from?? I can send/receive Morse 12wpm on a good day.....Rod, VA3ROD

@Ronald , i concur. I always felt that a tablesaw or circular saw were simply accidents waiting to happen. Felt quite safe with my 3-wheel bandsaw (the 3 wheels give you a deep throat). When the blade breaks (and sooner rather than later, that will happen)the blade instantly stops moving, minimizing the chance of the user getting cut. Bandsaw is perfect for that construction method where you cut both the inner hull & the outer side of the hull and then sandwich your boards. No bulkheads/ribs required, just a good marine wood glue and a wood rasp & sandpaper to smooth the outside of the hull sandwich.
A bandsaw never kicks back like a tablesaw or circularsaw will do.
A bandsaw produces a smoother cut edge than a benchtop jigsaw will do.

redpiperbob, Just my luck,
Fred

PeterN , thank you for your comment I do have a jig saw, which I use with cutting out the ribs, it's just that I need one to cut hard wood and sheet.
Fred

Fishercat, I will have a look for the Proxxon on that site, as you say I just may pick up one at the right price.
Fred

Ronald
Thank you for your comments, I found on my old bandsaw I could not cut the big sheets, I have a circler saw - scroll saw and jig saw,
I just need a saw that I can do what the above can do but in one place.
Fred

@Fred

Fred, I am a retired wood shop teacher. From my experience a bandsaw is one of the safest shop power tools to own and use in the shop.

The reason being is because the bandsaw will not spit out a projectile as a tablesaw is capable of doing if not used carefully. Even the most experienced woodworkers have experienced a kickback. I had a kickback rupture the right testicle.

The bandsaw will allow the operator to remove their hands from the workpiece with no fear of it flying into them. Nor the blade catching or pinching at the kerf which is what happened to me and is the main factor of a kickback.

A quality bandsaw is my recommendation.

If all you do is cut straight lines, and you don't mind a fairly wide kerf, then any used contractor's saw would do, and be reasonably light and portable. A cabinetmaker's saw is out of the question.

Another option, if you're doing only small items, with a much thinner kerf is the Proxxon table saw - there are 2 varieties, a simple one called the KS115 that costs less than that new, and a larger, more flexible, one that MIGHT be available at that price used if you get lucky. I did get one of the fancy ones for a bit more than 200, but I do think I got lucky.

There are various mini saws for hobby available on Amazon for under 200.

Perhaps a table saw and a jigsaw for curves? I DO love the straightness and clean cuts of tablesaw work, but I also need to cut curves - a jigsaw is slow, but used ones are also often available for well under 200 - I got one for $55 that isn't fancy but gets the job done.

@Fred Hi there Fred, I am still using the old table jig saw, looks a bit like this one. Must be 30+ years ols by now

pity you are not closer I have a table saw for sale Cheap
Bob
PS I am in Inverness