Thank you for that Doug. I was assuming transducers above waterline for transmission. That is quite a restriction on this model.

I need to do all my posting on the Build Blogg from now.

All the best.

NPJ

Hi Neil, agree with Dave, no need to rush it, think each step through first!
Transducers should be mounted on a vertical surface so the sound doesn't vanish into the clouds😉 You want to project across the water. Midships on both sides is ideal. But not right next to a bulkhead, in the middle of an open space is best.
Sort out the basics first i.e. propulsion and battery. Heaviest items as low as possible checking for balance and trim as you go.
Leave the wheelhouse and special FX to last when you can see what space and weight margin is left. Cheers Doug 😎

I see your point.

Will do from now on.

Thanks for the prompt.

NPJ

Hi Neil
You have started a Build Blog with the same title as this Forum post.
I suggest you post and respond to posts in the Build Blog in future.
You can post as often or as little as you like. it's useful to give each new post to the Build Blog with an appropriate heading eg adding new motor etc.
Have a quick look at some other Build Blogs to see how they worked

No not yet thought it through Doug. Huge speaker with the unit... and weighty. Glad about the transponders! I imaging they should be in the hull/decking and above the waterline?

Trying to read about about boat balance and how they sit in the water. Assuming keeping battery as low as possible is best. Will have to be fore and aft if it is to be removed through the rear hatch.

Have not broken into the Bridge/wheelhouse yet to see whats there.................

Is once a week OK for the build blog?

All the best.

NPJ

Crack on Man👍
Know what you mean about many deliveries. I've become friends with our DHL driver, we meet almost every second day. I order 6 items and the daft supplier sends 'em in anything from 1 to 6 deliveries!
The GF is getting jealous😉
Glad to see you got the Turnigy i6👍 The RX is nice and compact isn't it!
Have you thought of a build sequence for the 'special FX' yet?
Cheers Doug 😎

The TGY i6 and the Mtronics sound module arrived yesterday.

Some other small bits today. Transducers etc Tuesday they say.

Wife wondering what is happening.........................!

All the best

NPJ

Jarvo and RN,

I have put something up on the 'build site'. Could you check it out for me please.

First attempt!

NPJ

Octman...I had read that the steering, with any accuracy, in reverse was almost impossible without some modification and so it is on my list of possible mods.

Doug and Dave....I have ordered the transducers.

Re 'build', it looks like I will be coming up here to ask you all questions and then go back down the other thread and give the impression I know all about what I am talking about..............!

All the best,

NPJ

Hi Neil, sure such upgrades have been done before, BUT everyone puts their own slant on it and your experiences will add to the library of help and tips and encourage many 'newbies' to 'have a go' 👍
Cheers Doug 😎

Hi Neil,not sure what you mean about reversing. The steering in reverse is ok but nothing to write about, and with tank steering it seems to be much better on the port motor than the starboard one. Possible to do with water turbulence, but not really looked at it long enough to figure it out. My transducer or resonator also came from sound imports, and I had the same delivery experience as Dave.

Chris

Thank you both for your replies. I will get two ordered.

I have taken some 'the start' images and will put my mind to starting an 'upgrade' bit in the build area if you feel there is any point.

Surely it has all been done before?

All the best.

NPJ

Hi Neil
I sourced my TT25 type resonators from www.soundimports.eu/en/audio-components/exciters/
Their website is also a mine of info on how to install and use.
They are in the Netherlands and my postage added about £7 but it was quick and I had no surcharges. Very friendly and excellent comms and tracking service.
I checked Hobby King and it was suggesting the Global Warehouse. As they also sell the full Mr Sound system it's possible they are sourcing in the States.

Hi Neil, don't worry about the voltage specified. Seems to refer to the MRC Sound System. Has little to do with the speaker / transducer itself.
More important is the impedance of 4Ohms!
This means that if your amplifier output needs 8 Ohms minimum (a common standard) you should wire two transducers in series, one each side of the hull. Otherwise the 4 Ohm load could draw too much current from the amplifier and possibly burn out the output power transistors.😡
Series wiring means connecting the (red) of one transducer to the negative (black) of the other. The 'free' - and of the transducers then go to the - and of the amplifier speaker terminals. 4 4 = 8 and everybody's happy😊 and you can make lotsa noise!
Happy Ghetto Blasting! Doug 😎

Thanks for the prompt re source. Could have got caught there.

Seems to say 12v minimum input. I am only running at 7volts.....

NPJ

Hi Neil, the transducers are from HobbyKing/
http://rcsearch.info/hobbyking/i84822/#catalog
They take a bit of finding! hardware & Accessories -> Audio Systems & Parts !!! Or just look for the TT-25.
BUT: make sure they come from UK or EU Warehouse stock. I wasn't paying attention and mine came from the HK 'Global' warehouse and the German customs stung me for €62.68 duty and admin 😡 Had to pay the DHL man in cash or he wouldn't give 'em to me 🤔 Mind you I did buy 10 in one go, at US$19.99 each! Maybe they thought I was some kind of business.
Weight incl. cable and plug 81gm / 2.85oz, diameter 5.2cm (2"), height 2.1cm (0.8").
Happy modding, Doug 😎

Been away for a few days and all has moved...............

Doug, where did you get the transducers? Octman referred to them and I have been around a few sites but missed them.

Octman. Did you fined any difference with the reversing when you made the changes. I understand that standard set up is poor and some use a mixer and /or enlarge the rudder area?

Now I am back I hope to start on the 'build site' with the changes............

All the best.

NPJ

OK! I admit (temporary😉) defeat 🤔
Yep, it's the weight and size of the frames of conventional speakers that are the problem. That's what attracted me to 'Paul's' mini transducers in the first place.
Southampton goes back on the back-burner, will settle for RX, ESC and battery upgrade for now. But possibilities noted in my Log Book. Must do a Payload Test sometime.
Re Build Blogs; I think I'd better finish the Sea Scout first before this all gets out of hand! 😲 next step; fabricate new propshaft and mount the brushless.
In between perhaps something on the PT 109.
Have all the ingredients assembled now except stern gun; Decision: 20mm Oerlikon or 40mm? Pics on the net show both at various times.
Cheers Doug 😎

Doug
Mark is right.👍 I have fitted transducers in my 1:16 Trent on the hull sides above the waterline and they worked as well as the 8" mylar speaker I had previously using with the ACTION sound unit. This weighed a ton and the reduced weight made the model sail much better. This tug has little access inside and very little hull above the waterline. I'd stick to the bigger model in your fleet like the PT109 and do a build blog.
I hope you are going to start a Sothhampton build blog so we can follow your progress.

PS I drive a Toyota ... slogan- 'Nothing is impossible'! 😉

Hi Mark, You're very probably right, but THE CHALLENGE is half the fun.😉
They seemed to work pretty well in Paul's 'Noisy Thing'!
Anyway, I've shelled out for the damn things already.🤔
Most will probably actually end up in my bigger ships; Hotspur, Belfast, Graf Spee, PT109 etc. Just thought Southampton might provide a quick 'trials ship'.
In for penny ...
Cheers Doug😎

Hi Doug, everything is doable, but is the ultimate worth it?? the transducers with all the will in the world are only really used in exhibitions, on the water ???? lights, we do a few dusk sails so the lights are a good effort. Sorry to be negative, Regards Mark

Aha, After some Googling I get the picture!
The only differences between the Richardson and the Southampton are the name and the paint. So what works for one should also fit the other.
It boils down to an exercise in 'Plastic Magic' 😉
Cheers Doug 😎

PS Dave, Natch, small signal mixing is always better. A few 10 - 47K resistors and away you go! 😊 Amps such as the Action Electronics already have this network included. There are countless other similar 'ready made' solutions on the market for those who don't want to mess about with soldering irons like we do. Doug 😎

Dave, on the contrary. I am looking at the smallest solution as I want to fit such functions to my Southampton. is the 'Richardson' smaller than Southampton? I have a batch of the transducers recommended by Paul.
One each side of the hull midships shouldn't be a problem.
Cheers Doug
PS to Chris; fitting speakers under the deck is not optimum as the sound volume is directed upwards, so no one on shore can hear it! Learned this the hard way with my destroyer🤔
I propose to fit the transducers (actually Exciters; strictly speaking speakers are transducers cos they convert - transduce - electrical signals into mechanical movement via exciter and cone) midships on both sides of the hull midway between waterline and gunwale.
The idea being to bring the hull to resonant movement with the sound so it works like the speaker cone! Thus the exciter should be mounted as far as possible in the geometric centre of the hull surface available.
Cheers Doug 😎

Re Technobots Sound Units-
"As part of our review into the product ranges we stock, this engine sound unit is no longer available from Technobots. We have been the retail outlet for the excellent engine sound module designs of Alan Bond of Forge Electronics for many years and have proudly supplied over 1,000 of these units to modellers around the world. The good news is that Alan is going to continue production of the programmable sound unit so please visit the Forge-Electronics website for pricing and availability.

Our rather popular and well respected range of single voice and combo engine sound units have had a makeover! They still have the same great sounds but are even more user friendly."

https://www.technobotsonline.com/combo-engine-sound-unit-mk2.html

Doug 😎

Doug
I believe you have missed the point about lack of space. This is a very small model.
I agree you can mix audio signals but this is usually pre- amplification.
Transducers are great and work well on a hull above the waterline but I doubt if there is space on this hull.

PS to Chris, Assuming an optimum speaker / transducer, to get more volume you need a more powerful amplifier, more Watts!
The little stand-alone boards rarely produce more than 1W.
Again check the Component Shop.
Also check that your speaker / transducer is rated for the higher power!!
If using a traditional speaker with a cone make sure it is a waterproof Mylar cone!!! 'Uvverwise' they can go awful soggy an' droopy 🤔
Cheers Doug 😎

Octman.

That is really interesting stuff for me.

I am late up now so will look in more detail tomorrow.

Will catch up with you then.

All the best.

NPJ

Hi Chris, to feed two or more audio signals (Sounds!) into one speaker or transducer (which is just the core of a speaker without the cone!) you just need an amplifier with a mixer input. Not complicated but to make it even simpler people like Component Shop (Action Electronics) have some -
http://www.componentshop.co.uk/action-electronics/amplifiers

Cheers Doug 😎

Hi Chris
Good to hear you managed to get all the bits in. I did wonder where a speaker may be placed and without a good size its won't really sound right. I have used transducers and have two on my Small 1:16 Trent. They work best on the hull above the waterline as PM Devlin did with his model.
The Technobots sound units and amps are great but last time I looked I couldn't find them on the site.
Re the tank steering I suspect one motor is running faster than the other, you need to get them both at the same speed for the same stick movement on each stick.
Any chance of some pics and video. A new post thread would be useful
Dave

I have an old Southampton , off E.Bay a couple of years ago. I fitted the Components shop mixer, 2x 3400mAH NiMh packs(one for each motor)2 Mtroniks 15A Marine vipers, Technobots diesel sound system and also a Technobots 16 channel sound system. There is not a lot of spare space! I had a problem with the mixer eventually. it worked very well, as I did not think the turning circle in the original form was very good. I took it out eventually and went over to tank steering, which is OK but seems to be more effective in turning one way rather than the other, it's fine in a straight line. I found out after I had removed the mixer that the supposed problem was of my own making. So many wires inside that I was not in fact charging one of the battery packs so it ended up flat. Nothing wrong with the mixer at all!
I mounted the engine sound speaker in the lower half of the cabin,where there was just enough room, where the window openings are not glazed(at least on my boat they aren't). Sound was OK but it was a bit lacking in volume, but I may need a higher power speaker, not sure as audio is a non area to me. The 16 channel unit is good in that a micro SD card is supplied with pre- recorded sounds, and instructions are given on how to record your own. The difficulty with this particular sound system is finding somewhere to put the second speaker as the 2 systems cannot be fed into the same speaker. it was a bit faint to say the least,possibly due to the tiny speaker I used. I tried to fit a transducer glued to the underside of the deck but there was no improvement so that is a work in progress.
The inside of the hull resembled a very untidy birds nest!
CHris

OK Mark I will give it a real good try...........

NPJ

Hi Neville, to be real, there is no such thing as a waterproof switch, stay with the switch in the hull, yes its a faff to keep lifting the cab but it does keep the water out.

Cheat on the build thread??? your building it from basic components, take the pickies and post them, not like me who made a complete cods of the whole thing, still cant get my photos on the blog!!!!

Mark

Thank you again Mark.

I was thinking of trying to set up a waterproof switch accessible above deck. Thought it would be easier when at the 'quayside'.

When some of the other bits arrive I will be in a position to start 'laying out' and looking at the balance.

I will be following advice received here, but will keep asking questions.......

Some bits will not be here until second week in October!

Still plenty to do though.

Have started to keep bits in boxes as you suggested.

Really grateful for all the help. Have taken some images and will start the 'build thread' but seems a bit of a cheat as it is already built.............

Cheers to all.

NPJ

Neville, take your time and have a box with lid to put the bits, strange how they walk around the workshop/house, little buggers appear everywhere.
Lay out your components ESC on the tray??? Battery on the tray or on top? Receiver on the tray??? Are you going to use the moulded cutout for the on/off switch or re-position??? Are you fitting an on/off battery switch? or just pull the plug?
The critical bit is, will the wiring reach!!!! to the receiver? and keep it neat, radio wires kept separate from power wires.

Mark

Power to your screwdriver 👍

Found the little devils................Thanks for that.

Later I hope to start properly!

All the best both.

NPJ

Hi Mark, took me yonks to find them all🤔
I also experimented with battery athwartships, hope for better 'roll control' but eventually settled for between the shafts cos athwartships was too high.
My 'pico' RX (ca. 5x1.5cm😉) can go almost anywhere, with Velcro to hold it in place. The dual ESC can go where the old 800mAh NiMH was.
Later stage: smoke genny and lighting board in the lower superstructure, as apparently also in the latest versions! Mini SMD or strip LEDs for illumination and nav lights, mini 3V geared motor for the radar perhaps.
Don't need a radio channel for this, just a switch and a couple of AA alkaline batts and away you go😉
Although these days you almost never see the antenna cos it's hidden in a 'burger-bun' radome a la Furuno! 😉
Somewhere on the WWW spider web I remember seeing a working towing tackle - must dig out the bookmark, might have been Krick!
Cheers Doug 😎
Glad you're enjoying it Neil, that's the whole point ain't it? 👍

Many many thanks for that Mark.

I will look at it tomorrow morning. I am missing quite a few screws in the box at the moment............

Will look harder with you list in my hand.

Certainly enjoying this project.

All the best.

Neville

Neville, toilet rolls, problem, especially if you have a cat!!!.

3 screws at the stern, 1 central 2 at the corners under bollards, leaver up with thin screwdriver.

1 each side of the rear deck hatch.

1 each side opposite the cabin rear hold down bollards screw fitted in inboard side of each one.

1 each side rear of the forward hatch.

1 each side forward hatch, again hidden by bollard screw from side.

3 in the bow area.

PS all screws in the deck are under small plastic plugs, be gentle with them as you want to put them back to seal the deck again.

You should have 14 screws now, the deck is sealed with a gasket, 'O' ring, and what seems like Vaseline, and splits at the rubbing strip just behind the tyre fenders, might need a bit of a pull, going round the hull as you go. Once the deck is off, it is all in front of you.

Looking down into the hull, there is a black battery plate, held down with 4 screws, the receiver and the on/off switch.
I have kept the plate, but cutaway the dividing 'walls' was needed, for the new receiver etc to fit.
It is not big enough for the buggy type battery, so i glued a thin platform on top for the battery to sit on. Battery is held with self adhesive velcro pads to keep it in place.
'Central hull' is the motors and gearbox, follow the long Red and Black wires back to the receiver and cut them as close to the receiver as you can, ready to wire into the ESC, i used a 'chocolate' block, 10ah.
Stearn is the servo and steering linkage, nothing needed here just a smear of grease to lubricate. A couple of drops of oil on the ends of the propshaft won't go amiss.
'Battery position', i have mine on the radio plate, but with care and a little trimming you can fit it across the hull, above the propshafts, or with care between the propshafts, fore and aft. Make sure there is a side plate fitted to stop the battery fouling the rudder servo.

Hope this is clear, don't force the deck be gentle

Mark

Mark/Doug

Sorry about this but..............

Before I start the 'build' thread, how Do I take the deck off?!

I have removed all visible screws and the two under the stern posts. What have I missed?

I promise I will try to get better.............I can be challenged when changing a toilet roll so it may take time..........

NPJ

Hi Neville, the only advice about balance i would give is keep the heavy stuff right down low in the hull. Richardson is the modern version, 2.4ghz with smoke generator, this is mounted in the lower cabin, and makes her a bit tender to rolling, the battery position does not seem to be a problem as i said earlier, forward seems to make them sail well, rearward keeps the props well down when going astern

Mark

Jarvo

Thank you for that. Now I see the point. I had wondered if it was to do with weight/balance.
BTW have decided to give the Futarba tranny to the yacht Smaragd and the TGYi6s to the Tug Boat!

Neville

HI Neville, why did i move the bridge, Ha. the main reason was to make my boat different to the standard, i cut away the staircase and a small part of the railing, re-drilled the mounting holes and basically that was it, i have 4 of these, so each one is different, none except Richardson have the stairs, the first i re-painted in Smit colors, second was like the first but only removed the name and re-named as itchen Marine Wyforce, using vinyl decals i had made, the third re-painted in Wiesmuller colours, but with the funnels re-located on top of the air intakes with a firefighting bridge across with 2 fire nozzles, they all get a lot of interest, cost very little to alter but are different.

Mark

RN.
Combined as in horn and engine in one sealed unit. Trouble is that the engine sound stops when horn is operated........

The one you sent the image of.

Best I have seen so far.

All the best.

Neville

Hi again Neil, did you mean their sound modules? Something like this?
http://www.mtroniks.net/prod/Sound-Systems-For-Scale-Models/digisound5mLMC.htm
Don't know these anyway🤔 Up to now I've used simple analogue sound boards (some home made) and microswitch /or relay control.
Also have a Graupner programmable sound system in my stash, destined for Ark Royal. Doug 😎
Doug 😎

Hi Neil, I only know / have used the mini-Viper marine 10A ESCs. How do mean 'combined'? in their portfolio I only found a 'Combo ESC motor'. Nothing about dual ESC Mixer!?
Cheers Doug 😎

RN............

I have gone for a combined product from Mtroniks. Do you know it?

Will start on the 'build over the week-end.

NPJ

Thanks for that Mark.

I will have a go at some images etc over the week-end (I hope).

Why did you move the bridge/ structures on yours?

All the best.

NPJ