We'll hope for a positive outlook for your DILs mum.
JB

After carful consideration I think this model deserves a better motor as the one it has won't align to the prop shafts as the motor is much too big.
As I have a collection of marx motors I'm thinking of going with a either a decaperm or hectoperm, unless my spare Tarcol supermarine will line up. I will post again once I find a motor that will align with the propshaft.
Cheers Colin.

That's right Doug, I will try and catch up on the various threads I have opened, this weekend I hope to be home without any interruptions. So I'll try to get some pictures and details posted about the commander and the Wavemaster, I'm enjoying a whole day today looking after my granddaughter while the daughter in law takes her mum to hospital, she has a brain tumor and is going for a scan to check if it's got any worse.
Cheers Colin.

Hi DG. It looks a similar size, but definitely not the one I have. Plus that one has diametrically opposite brushes, whereas mine has three equally spaced brush positions. And I haven't seen the adjustable field windings on any sewing machines vintage or new.
Cheers Colin.

A stitch in time no less...............

Sounds good Colin,
Unusual but good😉
You won't need reverse for free sailing anyway will you.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Western Electric Sewing Machine motor - 1917 according to this ebay sale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1917-Patent-Date-Western-Electric-Sewing-Machine-Motor-and-Foot-Pedal-AS-IS-/202510137622?nma=true&si=gGDjL1Ld56C2cpOn2TV9HqcjMmY%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Probably a field-wound motor of the 'Universal' type - can run off DC or AC. It will be series wound rather than shunt - just like the Taycols. So you could make it reverse if you want to fiddle with the electrics by using the Taycol site circuitry adaptations.

It would probably have run off 110v AC, with a rheostat providing speed control, though a rheostat would have given you less power as the speed reduced, so the dual-speed brush system may have been an improvement to give you more power at slower speeds.

Here is a picture of an original satisfied customer...!

Hi Doug, sorry for the delay on this one but I have have now cleaned and tested the motor. It does not reverse, but moving the brushes to a different position did alter the speed by about 30%. In the picture you can see a small bolt head, by slacking it off and moving it up or down its slot the speed was increased or decreased as it moved the field windings.
I have never seen this before, but is a really handy way of setting up the motor for free sailing.
Cheers Colin.

".....That motor is a puzzle, if its a dc motor why would it have 3 brushes. I have only seen 2 or 4 on dc motors......"

From the excellent Workshop Practice series No.16 - Electric Motors - Jim Cox:

"...More modern types (of automobile wiper motors) are permanent magnet motors which use a three brush system. A pair of brushes in the normal position 180 deg apart is used for low-speed operation. One of the low speed brushes and a third brush set at about 120deg are used for the high-speed wipe. Because the brush at 120 deg only sees a fraction of the normal motor back EMF more current flows and the motor runs proportionately faster...."

Perhaps as was mentioned, the 3rd brush was for switching to another speed although if it is a generator of some type it might have been another voltage pickup (eg 6 or 12v perhaps?) Looks like it's either been driven or driven something with the pulley on the end?
Going completely silly, how about an aux generator off a spitfire or similar!!???
JB

Thanks for the idea JB.
I think you may be right on the reversing, as when I did a quick test to see if it was a runner, reversing the current flow had no affect.
On 12 volts it ran quite smoothly at 370rpm. Which considering the age and type of model with a high torque motor and large prop would look good on the water.
Next job is to clean up the commutator and brushes. It might start a bit easier then.
The boat was and will remain a free sailing model, just set the rudder on a gentle arc and switch on, and watch it go hopefully to a part of the pond you can retrieve it from.
Cheers Colin.

No Doug, but it certainly stitched me up LOL!

Martin555.

"as you can guess new sowing machine"
Can it sow spuds Martin 😁😂
Sorry 😔
😎

Silly boy Martin,
I did a similar thing with a scrap machine, but I used a jigsaw blade and it worked perfectly well for about 3 years.
Setting the foot about 25thou above the workpiece it cut wood, sheet brass, sheet steel and aluminium.
I've now got a bandsaw, picked up at local auction for a tenner.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Colin,
Many years ago In the long and distant past I put a small piece of fret saw blade in an old Singing sowing machine and tried cutting some soft wood, it worked out to be a very expensive experiment.
The wife was not happy nether was I, as you can guess new sowing machine.

Martin555.

Definitely not sewing machine, my other hobby is restoring vintage sewing machines.
Local retired electrical engineer thinks it may have been a generator /dynamo.
Cheers Colin.

The only way that we will get back on the thread topic is to feed the chickens "currents"

Martin555.

Nobody cared in those days Martin.
Except the chickens perhaps☹️
TTFN, off to Gisela's shortly.
Will catch up on the Night Watch!
😎

If the Chickens stayed planted they would no longer be free range LOL!

Martin555.

Bit like the old silly 'thought thought' jokes Doug (Thought thought if he planted a feather he'd grow a chicken😊😐☹️ etc?

Spare space might be for running in reverse Colin, (move a brush to the other side) or maybe for a different speed.? Maybe cancel thoughts on wiper motor, looks like a beast! Might have had drive belts on it at one stage (old converted sewing machine motor?) Industrial machine perhaps?
JB

Think the ancient Land Rover I used to drive on a chicken farm when I was 15/16 😉 had 'em too JB.
(Was difficult keeping the chickens 'planted' on the farm😁)
😎

Like the old 'Spin On' brand internal roof mounted type Doug ( my 33 Vaux had one)
JB

Aha! Makes sense Jacko 👍
Simply two windings with different number of turns and an external switch😊
😎

hi i have seen dc motors with 3 brushes this was in a 2 speed motor ( ie old car wiper motor ) but with a modern speed controller the 3rd would not be required

Doug, wysiwyg where I live.
That motor is a puzzle, if its a dc motor why would it have 3 brushes. I have only seen 2 or 4 on dc motors. But 3 on ac 3 phase motors.
The aforementioned commander is from a modellers son after his dads funeral.
He new I had a collection of vintage boats and left it to me.
I might have to fetch it from mid Wales, but that's not far for boat.
Cheers Colin.

Ain't never not seed a beasty like that afore!😮
Good luck with the testing🤞
I have a suspicion that it might tend to get stuck somewhere, esp at slow speed, as one brush appears to be missing! Might need a sharp tweak to the shaft to get it started as well
A Tweak Starter!😁
Measure the current as well if you can!
Cheers, Doug 😎
Is there a Sea Commander breeding ground down at your lake!?

Thanks JB I will be trying to keep it as original as possible as long as its not leeking. The rudder control (tiller) is broken and I will repair it, also the lights, cabin and spotlight needs to be rewired. Otherwise it will be cleaned up and used as well as displayed.
Cheers Colin.

Thanks Doug,
Just popped the motor out. I think it looks like it was originally a 3 phase, as there is a space for another brush set.
I have blown all the crud out with my airline.
But can't find any makers markings, will try it with my power supply and step it up starting at 3v, and steadily bring it up to 12v.
I will let you know how it goes.
Cheers Colin.
PS. Looks like I have another sea commander on the way as well.

That's a nice boat, Colin, a perfect restoration job, look forward to seeing pictures of her when she's finished and afloat.

Nerys

Sure Caroline will make a neat job of prepping her Colin👍
"The Two Cs Ride Again" - on - "Boat SOS"
😎

My first thought as well JB
"Like something salvaged from an Austin 7"😉
Pic shows a spruced up 1922 model in Shanghai motor museum.
😎

Bargain at half the price Colin, will you be restoring it, or leaving it in well used 'natural' condition? Motor looks like it might be an old 30s - 50s wiper/fan motor or similar, going by the cloth wire covering. Pretty old whatever it is!
JB

Hi Colin - could that be one of those "ex MOD" motors that Proops were always advertising in the 50's ? Never seen anything like that and we had some pretty weird WW2 stuff lying around in storerooms in the RRAF operational base........
Meant to say wish I had fairies like that around - you are lucky as Martin said.

Thanks for your comments, but this is going to be a conservation project and not a refurbishment, if the motor runs then I will use it as built, as a free-sailor. So on ponds with access all round.
Cheers Colin.

You lucky boy!
That will make an excellent refurbishment project.

Martin555.