Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Started by Madwelshman
14 replies 31 likes Last activity: 6 years ago
#15

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Thanks Bruce.

Will
Precedent Perkasa MTB 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 46"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 36"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover 29 1/2"
SLEC Fairey Huntress 23"
Liked by Martin555
#14

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

You can go to any marine supply a get 2 part epoxy resin for marine https://www.amazon.com/TotalBoat-High-Performance-Epoxy-Quart/dp/B06XH5CVFR/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=epoxy%2Bresin%2Bfor%2Bboats&qid=1608392506&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUEpLTE4xRkEwT0JXJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzE5NTgxRjhMWFk0NE5UVDhQJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MTMyMDkzTFRZVTQzN0M5M0dVJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
Liked by Madwelshman and Martin555
#13

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Thanks very much JB, that sounds like a good product.
Even if it is a little more expensive, if it does the job, then it's worth it.

Cheers
Will
Precedent Perkasa MTB 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 46"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 36"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover 29 1/2"
SLEC Fairey Huntress 23"
#12

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Hi Will, you can, once the damage is repaired, give it a liberal coating of timber preservative, (not sure if you can get International 'Everdure' where you are, but it is a timber preserving thin resin (almost like water), and will preserve it for life. You should never have to re-do it. I think there are similar products in the UK.

It's a 1:1 mixture and a little goes a long way ( a couple of table spoons of mixture will do most of your repair area) . Bit expensive but magic stuff. Excellent for coating the inside of hulls, (new or old) and soaks into every crack.

JB
Liked by Madwelshman
#11

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

When I saw the Sea Rover, which looks considerably worse that the Sea Commander, I just felt sorry for it and couldn't bare the thought of it just being binned or chucked in a skip.
Even the job I will achieve on it, it will be better than it was and more importantly, both saved and useable.

Will
Precedent Perkasa MTB 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 46"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 36"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover 29 1/2"
SLEC Fairey Huntress 23"
Liked by Martin555
#10

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

You will probably need to do one bulkhead at a time as you need enough space for the plates and clamps to hold each part as it dries.

It is well worth doing - its very satisfying to save a basket case from the skip and bring it back into regular use!

Bob.
Never too old to learn
Liked by jbkiwi and Madwelshman and
#9

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Thank you very much for your input guys and for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated.

Bob, you can't beat a good old basket case. lol
Really hoping to be able to do it justice and revitalise it so that I can get some enjoyment out of using it.

The bulkheads shouldn't be a problem to clamp and I think I will be able to clamp the keel as well.

Cheers guys.

Will
Precedent Perkasa MTB 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 46"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 36"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover 29 1/2"
SLEC Fairey Huntress 23"
Liked by Martin555
#8

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Hi Will,

As you know, I am a habitual restorer of basket cases that any sensible person would avoid like the plague - and I have come across and dealt with this same problem many times before..

The first thing you need to do is to get your nice dry de-laminated plywood wet again - and give it time for the moisture to soak well into the wood.

While that is happening sort out something like a couple of hardwood or alloy plates that will fit against both outside faces of the delaminated bulkheads and some clamps that are deep enough to press the sandwich of plates and bulkheads together.

Now wipe the wetted wood with a kitchen towel to remove any excess moisture.

Inject some good quality water-proof PVA taking advantage of the now plyable wood to get the glue right down and between the different layers of delaminated ply. I save any thin slithers of wood that are left over from the bandsaw to help with spreading glue in tight areas like this.

Use plenty of glue as when the plates squeeze it together any excess will get pressed out - and also into the small areas that you were not able to reach.

Wipe away any excess glue as it is forced out of the wood with a damp cloth.

Keep the plates under firm pressure for at least 24 hours and when removed the bulkhead should be flat and stay that way.

Hope this helps,

Bob.
Never too old to learn
Liked by RNinMunich and Martin555 and
#7

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Good Morning Will,
As most of my models are old vintage ones I often have to repair delamination.
On this particular model, of which I have 2, I used 2 pack epoxy from poundland on the bulkheads, keel and cabin sides. Using a slim needle to spread into the gaps and clamp wherever possible.
The hull skins i gave a good coating of Ezekote and glass cloth on the outside to strengthen and seal.
The inside was awkward as it had been coated with bitumen paint when first built so I scraped off as much as possible then washed out with trichloethane, dry cleaning type solvent, then I primed and painted with hammerite smooth.
Leave for 48 hours to harden off, then it should be ready to give the outside a rub down and final paint job.
Hope this helps, cheers Colin.
Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
Liked by jbkiwi and RNinMunich and
#6

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Hi Will,
I don't know whether this will help but de-lamination like this is a common problem with caravan fllors, it happened to ours. the repairer drilled holes halfway through the floor then injected a resin into the void clamped everything tight. I have done similar repairs to this using a syringe and resin. Injecting resin into the voids. I used the syringes with wide needles that are used for refilling ink cartridges. The runnier resins can be mixed in the syringe by shaking. If you can get tiny clamps to the keel this might work.
Incidentally I use this method (minus the needle) to inject polyurethane resin into complicated silicon rubber moulds.
Liked by jbkiwi and Martin555 and
#5

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Nerys/Bruce, thank you for your replies.

Bruce, yes, the plan is to get it on the water and not just have it as a show piece.

My thoughts were some sort of slow bonding adhesive/epoxy injected and then left for a while/allowed to seep in between the layers before it cures and clamped with something that won't distort and will clamp the each length I'm working on evenly.

Going by the bulkheads, the hull has obviously had a fair drop of water in at sometime in the past.

I dare say that at some point in the future, I will attempt replacement of the delaminated parts, but for now, I just want to try to protect them from getting any/much worse, so that I c an get it on the water and have some use from it.

Many thanks for your input.
Will
Precedent Perkasa MTB 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 46"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 36"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover 29 1/2"
SLEC Fairey Huntress 23"
Liked by Colin H and Martin555
#4

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

That's very good advice Bruce has given you, but I imagined that you would find difficulty in being able to clamp everything together securely especially if any of the surfaces are curved.

Nerys
When the winds before the rain, soon you may make sail again, but when the rain's before the wind, tops'l sheets and halyards mind
Liked by Martin555 and Madwelshman
#3

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

I assume you are going to be putting this in the water. Take 2 part epoxy and pour or inject into the lamination use a slow bonding epoxy. let it sit for about 10 minutes then with a couple of metal stips careful not to get epoxy on the metal wood area cover wood wit wax paper then clamp a piece of metal on each side and tight clamps until it has dried. once done I would suggest you use epoxy and fiberglass cloth on both inside and outside of hull. and coat cloth with epoxy you only need 1.4 ox cloth to keep the weight down glassing can be a challenge if you put too much epoxy on the glass and you need to bush out all air bubbles and keep cloth smooth push into all corners and cracks with the bush do small areas at a time then sand after it has dried just need a thin coat. this will not add much weight to your boat but will strengthen it and seal it from water.
I would suggest you don't use a fiberglass resinas it will asorb water. Epoxy is water resistant, But not UV resistant, hense painting or marine varnish over the epoxy. Yes they use fiberglass resin on real boats but that is one reason they use Gel coat. as a barrier to the water.
when you take a boat out of water dry out all the water in the boat open up yourbildge and cabins and use a fan for several hours to air dry the boat.
If you dont want to use the fiber glass material you can brush on several layers of epoxy resin but coat both sides if not marine plywood it will suck up alot of resin. seal around prop shafts and rudders.
here is good video
Liked by Martin555 and Madwelshman and
#2

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Hi Will,

Sorry to say, I don't think there's any way of rebonding the laminations of ply together. It would be virtually impossible to get even pressure over the whole area. I think you will just have to grit your teeth and replace. I'm sure you will find that you are quite capable of carrying out this repair. Just take it steady.

Going off that subject for a moment, Where do you sail in West Wales?

Cheers, Nerys
When the winds before the rain, soon you may make sail again, but when the rain's before the wind, tops'l sheets and halyards mind
Liked by Martin555 and Madwelshman
#1

Ply starting or actually de-laminating. What to do?

Hi guys,


I have recently bought an Aerokits Sea Commander and there are a few parts of it where the ply is either starting to, or has de-laminated.


Now I'm guessing that ideally, replacement of the area is more than likely the recommended option, but seeing as my skills aren't that great as yet, I don't really want to go down that route, especially as one area is the front half of the keel and also two if the bulkheads.


Before buying it the boat was, and is now stored somewhere nice and dry. So, are there any products that anyone can recommend that will get between the laminations and once the areas are clamped, will bond the laminations back together. Obviously, unless there's some miracle product or process, I'm guessing that nothing will 'fully' bond all of the laminations back together, but for me, keel replacement especially, isn't an option. The bulkheads, maybe I could do something about replacing if I really had to, but for now at least, I'd really rather not.


The underside of the hull itself and keel all appear solid, as does the rear half of the keel, with no obvious signs of previous leaks or any soft spots, so this is another reason that I don't really want to attempt keel replacement.


Thanks in advance for any advice.


Will
Precedent Perkasa MTB 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 46"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 36"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover 29 1/2"
SLEC Fairey Huntress 23"
Liked by Colin H and Martin555 and

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