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    46 Inch RAF Crash Tender
    by Flack ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ( Warrant Officer)
    ๐Ÿ“ฃ










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    12 Posts 69 Comments 20 Photos 17 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    I want to make some working monitors out of brass. The plan of using the white metal version to work to didn't come off very well, It would be a big help If any of the fireboat fraternity has any plans or drawings I could work to please.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Working Monitors
    5 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Guess you still have the white metal monitors that came with the kit, can't you use these as a guide to the size and make something similar to those that I made for my 34" fireboat, they look ok and they work.

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Working Monitors
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Hey Alan,

    Tried copying the white metal ones and it just didn't seem to work out. I made something like 8 or 9 different pieces to form the main stem and they all ended up in the bin ๐Ÿ‘บ Tried to make this stem in three pieces with the middle bit in styrene but it looked terrible ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ its probably more my lack of experience on the lathe than anything else

    Shaun

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    5 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    The water jets you make need to be able to stand a lot of pressure, I know from experience, as I used some Robbe fittings and tried to use the push fittings.
    I have not progressed further but do know that you need to make a pressure fitting all the way from the pump to the nozzle. ideally you should make the pressure adjustable so possibly a speed ESC to the pump motor may help.
    As regards the nozzle I would use a straight through pipe bent to the correct angle with the correct pressure fittings to the pump and jet.
    You could then make the body parts to fit over the pipe all nicely turned and bored on the lathe.
    This will be at a fixed angle but you could motorize the pipe and move left to right (servo?).
    Please post details when you find a solution. ๐Ÿ˜€

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Working Monitors
    5 years ago by boaty ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    HI Alan and Shaun

    I thought about some working monitors but gave up after trying to make some.
    I guess they would have to be made of plastic as the white metal ones are non starters. they are too complex and brittle.

    I wonder if Vintage Model Boat Company are planning on making some as there is definitely a market out there for both restorers of the Fireboat and also the new builds from VMBC.

    I feel that the basis for working monitors should be around a car windscreen washer motor with flexible tubing leading to brass tubes inside the monitors themselves. A 12 volt supply could be provided by a small battery independent of the main power supply and on/off by a servo controlled switch. ๐Ÿ˜Š

    Regards

    Boaty

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    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    HI Boaty,

    Your thoughts are exactly the same as mine with regard to operation other than the power would be off the 12 volt 7.5amp/hour drive battery. ๐Ÿ˜Š

    I had a set of the white metal ones and they weren't too bad quality wise, however as soon as I tried to put a hole through the metal it was terrible. ๐Ÿ˜ซ The drills wandered off centre, even with a bench drill and vice, and if that went well the bit jammed and snapped part way in. I tried hand speed, slow drill speed and all manner of ways, all to no avail, so that's how I got here.

    Shaun

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    5 years ago by Trillium ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    I have tubing push fitted over straight brass tube. To secure it I have wrapped a piece of copper wire around the connection so that there is one complete loop around the tube, and then twisted the ends to tighten it. it has worked fine so far, on the discharge from a Graupner 6V water pump.
    Roy

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Working Monitors
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Cheers Roy, am happy with getting them working its the making of them I'm having fun with.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ“ Paint Time
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    I never realised a small area like a model boat hull could take up so much time and cost so much money to paint, I think maybe it's the competitive spirit engendered by Alan P and pmdevlin in trying to match the quality of the paint finish on their hulls ๐Ÿ˜‹ After the application of many, many coats of gold plated (in terms of cost) Halfords rattle can paint, the use of sheets and sheets of wet and dry paper and countless hours of labour I'm quite pleased with the result. ๐Ÿ˜Š ๐Ÿ˜Š

    Now I need to come up with some way of protecting it whilst I do the upperworks ๐Ÿ˜ฐ

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Paint Time
    5 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Must have been away when you posted this, just seen it.

    Looks good, must have gone hard by now, so you can cut it back with past and then polish it ๐Ÿ˜ after you have painted the dreaded white water line ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Paint Time
    3 years ago by Aeronut1 ( Leading Seaman)
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    The dreaded white water line? No, no, here's my method: float the boat in the bath, allow the water to get still then dust the water surface with talc or similar all around the hull.

    Carefully lift the hull from the water and the talc will be seen on the hull marking the water line.


    Jim

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    3 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    I tried that method, boy or boy did I get into trouble ๐Ÿ˜

    Alan

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    3 years ago by Aeronut1 ( Leading Seaman)
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    Can't think why you got into trouble it's pretty simple I found and gave me a very accurate water line datum.

    Having found the w/l datum I applied Trimline tape (white) for a perfect straight line, Trimline tape sticks so well it can pull off underlying paint after a couple of weeks to harden off.


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    3 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    The trouble was not with the water line Jim, it was with the wife because I made a mess ๐Ÿ˜
    I have now been banned from the test tank in the house ๐Ÿ˜ญ (I have to wait until she is out)

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Paint Time
    3 years ago by Aeronut1 ( Leading Seaman)
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    Tolerance to model making should have been included in the marriage vows!

    What a shame, makes one appreciate a good un....
    Press on doing the best you can.


    Jim

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    3 years ago by cenbeth ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Whenever I want to use the bath as a "test tank" I wait for Her to go shopping then make sure I give the bath a dam good clean and dry it. To date she hasn't noticed and I hope she doesn't read this!

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    3 years ago by Albert ( Able Seaman)
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    Albert
    I do the same what they do not see the better.

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    ๐Ÿ“ Monitors
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Always envisaged having working monitors. The kit came with a white metal monitor in three parts so I set too with a 3mm diameter drill on slow speed to drill through the parts to make waterways into which I would fit a brass tube and then when the monitor was made up the tubes could be connected with small diameter silicon tubing. The best laid plans....... white metal doesn't like drill bits on any speed, the bit jammed in the metal and snapped off ๐Ÿ˜ญ

    Time to put the shiny new lathe to good use and make my own in brass following the pattern of the white metal ones - quite pleased with the first effort ๐Ÿ˜Š

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Monitors
    5 years ago by EAGLE ( Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Hi
    When I drill white metal I use a pin holder, and use little pressure, and keep on removing it after every few turns. I hope this helps you. when you try again.
    Dave

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    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    HI Dave,

    Thanks for the advice I used very slow speed but the bit just jammed and because of the small diameter it just snapped off making it Impossible to drill any further

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    In the absence of a commercially available net to fit on the roof of the aft cabin I decided to make my own. I made a simple jig with a wooden base and small panels pins at 3/8 inch centres. Then using small diameter string formed the shape of the net on the jig and when it was all in position put a dot of superglue on each of the crossover points. After the superglue had cured I cut the resulting net off and cut all the loose ends away and ended up with what I thought was a presentable scramble net. ๐Ÿ˜Š

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    5 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Clever bu***r ๐Ÿ˜ Nice one Shaun, looks good ๐Ÿ‘

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    5 years ago by shavings ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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    Now I know where all the panel pins went! Seriously looks really good must pinch the idea myself
    Roger

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    5 years ago by boaty ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
    Flag
    Looks great and very realistic.

    A few weeks ago I obtained a 34 inch Aerokits Crash Tender.
    It needs a bit of work and I have just made the cabin roof panels.

    Indication is that it may have originally had a Taycol Standard for propulsion judging by the motor mount.

    I am looking out for ideas ref fittings including fire monitors etc and power unit is anticipated to be a Speed 600 when completed.

    Thanks for the details ref making scrambling nets.

    Boaty

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    5 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks for the nice comments ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    Word of warning Boaty, the crash tender seems to have a cult following and you don't have to look very far on the various blogs to see some really quality modelling to produce exceptional models - you'll get drawn in!

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    3 years ago by PeterDavidson ( Able Seaman)
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    I'm almost there with my Crash Tender build and had drawn a blank with finding suitable scramble nets, this looks like the perfect answer to my quest...cheers!

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - scramble nets
    3 years ago by Aeronut1 ( Leading Seaman)
    Flag
    My scramble nets were made by my dear wifey - using the Crochet method, they're very flexible and roll easily, when rolled up they are held in place by a slice of aluminium cigar tube with a slit to release. SWMBO also made a set of lovely fenders incl. bow fender the same way.

    Oh yes, and she made the blankets and pillows for the sick bay as well.

    Jim

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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch Crash Tender
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Nearly at the point of thinking of applying some paint - internally anyway. I have seen some reference to sanding sealer being applied before painting so "googled" it and as is the case with the internet came up with more questions than answers. I would appreciate some advice on the type of sanding sealer and a possible pLace to purchase it - thanks

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender
    6 years ago by Chiefpurser ( Leading Seaman)
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    most model shops do it, I have also seen it in B. & Q or you could use normal varnish and put johnson baby powder in it, which is basically sanding sealer.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    If you can't get sanding sealer, dope will do and you can add some talcum powder to turn it into sanding sealer.
    I use sanding sealer on wood before painting, it seals the wood and fills the grain, but you need to keep sanding it right back between coats, the first coat of primer will show any grain in the wood that has not been filled.
    The clear lacquer in a rattle can from Halfords makes a good wood sealer but does not have the filling capacity to get rid of the grain

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks both - I'll have a look in B and Q this weekend if not it's an internet purchase - all the model shops have disappeared in Staffordshire.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender
    5 years ago by Rookysailor ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    If you still have woodgrain showing after sanding sealer,
    I use Spray Filler from Halfords, sometimes called Spray Putty. 500ml tin which goes on yellow, and sands nicely, and most of all it fills all the tiny grain pieces.

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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Well, today was bite the bullet day and time to start the job of fibre glassing the hull. it was as bad as I had been led to believe and worse, as soon as I thought I had got the cloth as a reasonably smooth finish a bubble would suddenly pop up and in my attempt to smooth that out I would disturb it elsewhere. I suppose doing it outside at this time of year wouldn't help the going off time.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
    Flag
    HI Shaun
    Looks OK, it is a technique you need to learn but you seem to have progressed well. ๐Ÿ‘
    Unlike isopon resin the layup resin takes much longer to harden but this gives you plenty of time to sort out any problems.
    It is possibly a bit on the cool side so I would expect the resin to take maybe a couple of days to harden but it will go hard so don't panic. if you can introduce some background heat this will speed up the process but avoid using directional heat as this may cause the resin to harden in an uneven pattern.
    Once dry you will be able to sand away the excess cloth and then make good any area needing attention. if any bubbles rub through to the wood you can apply a fresh piece of cloth and resin. Once set and rubbed flat it will be ready for a final thin topcoat.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks Dave,

    Went to ABL Stevens and as you said they were very helpful, in fact it turned out to be a good hour session.
    Horrible job but as has been intimated it will be worth it in the end. Notice the wife wouldn't let me do this bit in the dining room!

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Looks good Shaun, it should harden off nicely in the dining room if you can disguise the smell. ๐Ÿ˜

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks Alan,

    I didn't even get the chance, as soon as she saw the markings on the cans I was doomed to relegation to the garage ๐Ÿ˜ญ

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Still sanding the hull Shaun? ๐Ÿ˜

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    HI Alan,

    I've not done a lot this last week or so it's too cold ๐Ÿ‘Ž cause I've now been relegated to the garage because of the smell - the resin - not me ๐Ÿ˜ Sealed the inside with a coat of resin and it took 4 days to dry ๐Ÿ˜ญ
    Trying to decide wether to fit the rubbing strakes before or after the next coat of resin โ“ How are you coming along with yours?

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Well, I fitted the wheelhouse roof, a really awkward shape, made a cup of coffee, went back into the workshop and stood there admiring my handy work, then, oh no, I had put the port side front window frame in upside down, not much difference but noticeable > ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ so, roof taken back off and the window frame cut out, it looked a real mess, new frame made and fitted and the roof back on ๐Ÿ˜ Now rubbing the hull down and wondering weather to give it another coat of Z poxy before trying to fit the rubbing strakes.
    My Christmas present came this morning, three bags of coke for the fire in the workshop (garage) no, I haven't been a bad boy ๐Ÿ˜
    Any wooden boats that I am building in the winter months are brought into the house for the night so that they don't absorb any damp before sealing, once sealed and painted they stop out in the workshop.
    Ill take a photo of mine tomorrow and put it on your thread if you don't mind.
    Friday afternoon is fast electric day for us at the club, took my eye off my Blackjack and ran it into the concrete side of the lake at about 40 mph ๐Ÿ˜ญ repairable, I think.

    Alan, with aching finger

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    And I thought I had been having it a bit rough - must be the cold !! Look forward to seeing your progress.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    Hope you have managed to get your hull finished. I can't Imagine how difficult it must have been with the temperature dropping so low.
    If you persevere with this method you will find the next model much easier and if the weather is warmer far less stressful ๐Ÿ˜€

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    HI Dave,

    getting on slowly, you may have seen, the last resin coat took four days to dry ๐Ÿ˜ญ and then only because I forced it a bit with a hairdryer. Just getting on with fitting the decks and trying to decide whether to fit the rubbing strakes before the next coat of resin on the hull. โ“
    Santa's bought me the next project and its a venture into fibreglass hulls with the Metcalfe Mouldings Waveney class lifeboat - looking forward to that one, hope it's as good as the one I saw displayed.
    Still doing a bit to the Solent class but even with your first class photo's struggling with the prop tunnels - it'll come to me eventually.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    Yep any temp below 40 deg F will really slow down the process. ๐Ÿ˜ฐ
    I would fit your strakes now. From experience I usually glue and use pins into and thro' the hull. Just glue usually fails especially with my high speed contacts on the lake.
    Make good any holes for the fixings and don't use steel, it will rust. ๐Ÿ˜‰ Brass screws or rod are best, epoxied in, but countersink so you can cover the hole with filler (Isopon). Use a small piece of wood (ply) inside if you use screws, just to spread the load, then cover with glass fibre and resin to make good the inside of the hull.
    A final coat of resin will seal and finish the hull to complete the job. ๐Ÿ˜€
    The Waveney should make into a nice model, Dave Metcalfe makes super hulls and kits and will always help if you get stuck. ๐Ÿ‘
    The Solent prop tunnels need to be built with the liteply (1mm to 1.5mm max) wood grain running fore to aft so it follows the curve. You can use several pieces joined with a small backing piece.
    Good building ๐Ÿ˜€
    Dave

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    1 on that advice, I used pins and cyno to attach the spray rails on the fireboat, being plastic strip I was able to heat it up to help with the shape. I did however remove the pins, and filled the holes with cyno, using a torch inside the hull in the dark to make sure I didnt miss any (which I did! ๐Ÿ˜ฏ )

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Is cyno waterproof?

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    yes ๐Ÿ˜€

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 1 month on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    I hope so cause I used it to attach the grab rails to the aft roof ๐Ÿ’ญ

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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Well all of a sudden it seems to be really taking shape, the hull skins are all fitted and quite a bit of the top works are well on the way. it's only when you stop to take stock of what the next part of the build is, that the realisation of the amount of work still to do suddenly hits home.

    The next stage for me has to be preparing the exterior and the interior of the hull for fibre glassing to give it that little bit more strength and make it 100% watertight, but before all that there's a bit of filling and sanding to do on the exterior of the hull.

    The motor and speed controller have arrived and I'm quite Impressed with the provided motor mount.

    Can't get over the fact that the wife is still letting me use the dining room!!

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    Dining room, let's hope she doesn't go to Specsavers ๐Ÿ˜

    leaving the easy bit till last eh ๐Ÿ˜ (wheel house )

    Joking apart, it's looking good.
    Did you get a program card for the ESC?

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks Alan,

    think I might have blown use of the dining room tonight - been filling with P38 and I think the smell drew too much attention!

    I bought the Hobby wing program card to go with the speed controller.

    Know what you mean about the wheel house have tried dry fitting it together and I think the build bit will be interesting.

    Can't get the hang of adding the smiley's.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    my advice is dont glass inside, the wood needs to breathe, and let any moisture out, which it will get during use. I used a clear ronseal matt varnish to make it look pretty!

    My esc's where pretty much the same, turnigy is same as hobbyking, its their brand. Didnt have a programming card, and it was REAL difficult to programme them, you need 3 hands ๐Ÿ˜€

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks for the advice - is the fibre glassing on the outside of the hull for protection or to cover faults, bad wood etc.? Given that mine is a new build and everything is sound would it give the hull more strength if I fibreglass the inside and incorporate the chine stringers and then paint the outside of the hull with primers, undercoat and finish.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    All my wooden hulls are coated inside and outside with Z Poxy, but I do keep the boat in a warm room for a couple of days before doing either, then they go back out to the workshop.
    The first wooden hull is coming up for 10 years now and is still OK.

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks Alan, when you say coated with Z poxy is that just the resin or have you used the matting to go with that.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    I just use the resin, usually one coat, then rubbed down, then a second coat, rubbed down then onto the paint. if the hull is nice and smooth before the first coat, two coats should do it, use the foam brushes from somewhere like " The Works" they do not leave ridges like a piece of card or plastic does, when you have finished putting the resin on, pass a heat gun over it and it will smooth out even more, but don't overdo it or it will bubble.
    I am not rough with my boats so I don't think that I need to mess around with matting

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    I like the sound of that - I am very grateful for all the comments from those who have a wealth more experience than I will ever have in model building, but having put a lot of work into getting the skins fitting nicely I don't want to mess it up doing something that I don't necessarily need to do. From what I understand the resin will from a hard coat in itself. Thanks Alan.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch RAF Crash Tender - 18 days on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    You could reinforce with a bit of cloth and resin on the inside around where the motor is going, just to give a bit of support for the motor mount.

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 10 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    It's time to start fitting the hull skins - that really is a bit mind blowing for a first timer. Sand a bit try it, sand a bit more try it again and so on and so on. Pleased I thought of sourcing plenty of clamps but will have to move away from the 5 minute epoxy! I hope I'll get there eventually.

    The good news is I have selected the motor, JP Energ 50-20, cheapest at Cornwall model boats, its currently on order and the speed controller to go with it, Seaking 120 amp brushless courtesy of GiantShark

    Also started to do a bit of work on the cabin roofs while the glue sets - very pleased with the progress of the aft cabin roof.

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 10 days on
    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    The cabin roof looks really good, love the hinges.

    Alan

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 10 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Ta Alan, can only take credit for fitting them , they were part of the white metal fittings with the kit.

    Shaun

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    ๐Ÿ“ Motors and speed controllers
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Had a long chat with a chap at Blackpool who had a 46 inch Crash Tender on display and was incredibly helpful with both build tips and electronics. Pretty sure I am going to fit a JP outrunner with a performance equivalent to .60 Ic engine, the problem is the speed controller, so many bits of conflicting advice. The motor specs call for an 85amp speed controller but the man in the shop says a 50 amp will suffice. I tend to err towards the 85 amp version but haven't yet found one to suit - anybody any experience of 85amp or above ESC preferably forward and reverse please

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Motors and speed controllers
    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    Glad to hear you have spoken to someone with an actual set up.

    As regards the ESC you really need one that is capable of handling double the power requirement of the motor.
    Does the man in the shop race model boats and have personal knowledge of the JP?

    Manufacturers always seem to give optimistic ratings for their products and whilst the tests may be OK in the real world the performance and output drops off as the max rating is approached.

    If you are intending to run your model at this sort of level then you will need to water cool all the bits.
    Not sure if you know the formula but Watts equal volts time amps so say 12v x 40a = 480 watts. I suggest you also purchase a wattmeter so that you can ensure you do not overload the motor or ESC by fitting too big a prop.

    As regards forward/reverse running This is usually a bit of a pain as the ESC requires you to stop the motor select reverse return to neutral then select reverse again. in my experience this requires that you keep the stick spring an your tranny as the neutral position is fairly critical.

    Your knowledge is increasing every day and I am so glad the you are sharing the experience for others to follow. ๐Ÿ˜€

    Smiley's appear on the right of my response screen and I just click on one to add. I suggest you clear your computer cache and see if that clears the problem.

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    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Thanks once again for your input Dave it's really great to be able to discuss these matters with someone who is knowledgeable, experienced and vey helpful.

    The bit about practical experience of the actual operation of the forward/reverse facility throws another consideration into the melting pot. Would I really need the facility on a 46 inch fast response type model which is not the kind of thing that is going to be manoeuvred around docks etc.? My thoughts when first looking at it was to be able to use the forward/reverse facility to slow the boat to help stop me crashing into things, maybe it's better not to get into that situation in the first place!!

    Cheers Shaun

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    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    Reverse is always useful to get you out of a tight spot be it avoiding a collision or getting out of weeds.

    I agree avoidance is the best policy but we all suffer from the occasional mishap so best to be prepared!
    Cheers
    dave ๐Ÿ˜€

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    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    I also bent that chaps ear on the Saturday morning, there was someone doing the same just before me, could have been you. The poor chap had just put it all back together, then I asked him to take all the lids off again ๐Ÿ˜ but he was really helpful and I learned a lot from him.

    I am using a seaking 90 amp water cooled ESC in my 34" boat when it is finished, it has reverse, I have used these ESCs of varying sizes in my fast electric boats and they have always been good, easy to set up with a program card

    Alan

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    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    HI Alan,

    Yes if it's the same guy he certainly had all the answers and so keen to help. I'll look up the Seaking 90 amp ESC online - I always think a recommendation is worth hours of research, thanks very much

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    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Had a look at the 120 amp Seaking on GiantShark currently on offer at ยฃ43, the 90 amp is special order at ยฃ55

    Shaun

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    6 years ago by AlanP ( Lieutenant)
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    They are a bit dear compared with some of the others, but you get what you pay for with ESCs I think.
    One of my FE boats burnt two cheap 200a esc out, the same boat has now run on a 120 amp seaking once a week for the past 3 months.

    Alan

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    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Was pleasantly surprised at the price Alan - all the ones recommended outside this forum were at least a third dearer and in some cases a lot more. Bought the programming card at the same time. Thanks for the tip!

    Shaun

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    6 years ago by Chiefpurser ( Leading Seaman)
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    Just fitted two 90amp esc from the hobbyking range work my 900 watt motors a treat, and come pre programmed. Or programme them yourself if you can count the dots and dashes like a radio operator. Dont buy the hobbyking card they dont work, see comments if you go on the site....

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    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    No marks for guessing which one I bought then! ๐Ÿ‘Ž

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    ๐Ÿ“ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 6 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    Starting to come together now, as a novice boat builder it hasn't been the easiest of journeys and I don't suppose that there are not going to be any more problems to overcome, but I have certainly learnt a lot.

    As I said at the start the kit came with an Impressive array of plans and instructions but in reality the detail just wasn't there.

    I need to think about motors and speed controllers, the recommendations that came with the kit for a brushless motor and corresponding speed controller are a bit out of my league and with my limited knowledge of electric power would be expensive if I did something wrong. I would like a reasonable turn of speed and duration and would appreciate any advice please

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 6 days on
    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    Looks like you are progressing well with the build. The jig will hold everything nice and square to the centre line so your model will have the correct profile. ๐Ÿ‘
    You certainly do need to think about the propulsion as you need to fit the shaft(s) and motor(s) before the skins.
    Dual or single may be down to price and performance required. The heavier the model the more power (watts) you will use.

    Brushless motors are popular as they are light as are the speed controllers and their power to weight ratio is very good. With the power available a single prop will give you more power than you need.

    Brushed are less efficient and with a speed controller heavier. 700 type motors are common with 50Amp ESC's.

    You can use SLA batteries or NiMh batteries with both but if speed is your thing LiPo's will give the best performance.

    Cost is probably similar for either system and Giant Shark have a sale on at present so you might get a good deal.

    Electrically there is little difference in set up, brushless have three wires and can be connected any way round. if the prop then turns in the wrong direction you just reverse any two wires.

    Have a look in the Boat Harbour on this site as several people have built Sea Queens and you could pm them for more info.

    Hope this helps and good luck with the build ๐Ÿ˜€

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 6 days on
    6 years ago by Dave M ( Rear Admiral)
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    HI Shaun
    Should have mentioned that you will probably need twin motors and props with a brushed set up.
    Dave ๐Ÿ˜€

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ 46 Inch Crash Tender - 6 days on
    6 years ago by Flack ( Warrant Officer)
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    HI Dave,

    Thanks for the response and the afterthought which probably was the most appropriate at the moment because it had crossed my mind to use a single brushed motor but if that's not going to work it looks like brushless has to be the way forward. looking at probably a brushless from 4MAX and a JETI speed controller. As you suggest will have a look at the boat harbour - Thanks again.

    Shaun

    The smileys won't work for me !!!!

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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 46 Inch Crash Tender - 6 days on
    12 days ago by andyhynes ( Leading Seaman)
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    My 46 inch Crash Tender has a Leopard Brushless Motor plus a Hawk Fusion 100amp ESC driving a 50mm 3 blade brass prop. It performs better than i expected when i completed the model three years ago and is still in use and reliable and looks good on the water.

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