There are many "kits" that had me scratching my head many times as well.
Lew

My definition of a scratch built model.. while building you are constantly scratching your head.

I've show this before

I know my model of the Orca was scratch built because I started with a plan and a 2x4. Just to make it a challenge.

Good evening all, we all have an idea of scratch built.
My thoughts are that a scratch built is either from photos or drawings using whatever materials are available to the modeller, be it wood, metal, fibre glass or even papier-mache (of which I have models using all these methods) or combinations of various materials.
But the main distinction is how we perceive the model.
Cheers Colin.

Ok Fellow modelers. I could not help but to jump in on this. I have been reading through the comments and I would think a true scratch build is to build a boat from raw materials using only photos of the original boat. A kit plan scratch build would be one such as my Chris Craft Challenger shown here. I built this model from raw materials (not kit or pre drawn) and even made my nav lights from balsa and resin. A kit build would be from a a kit that the builder used the plans and the kit stamped or drawn parts that came with the kit.

Boatshed,
You do not need to apologize or be concerned about expressing your ideas except if they are vulgar or political. You are entitled to say whatever you think or feel. Afterall not everyone is as perfect as me.😁
Len

Been modeling for a while. A kit boat is a kit boat. A scratch built boat is one that is assembled from lines and offsets and where one gets his own materials to make the boat. When we do regattas we do the judging where we call it, “You Be the Judge”. This is where ever modeler who enters is a judge. They are given a sheet with categories where they choose the best of a boat that fits. Now they can not vote for there own boat as there boat(s) number is placed on the form. Plus there are categories for scratch, kit, semi kit where the owner has to display a entry sheet with the chosen category by the displayed model.😊

I thought kit-bashing was to take a kit and alter it to what you want. Like converting a fishing boat to a motor yacht.

Jumpugly it maybe having a common language is what divides us!
Regards
Roy

Hi Duncan, I was about to ask you the question, you beat me to it.
I was curious to know why you asked this question.
I believe that in one way or another, everyone has answered NO to your question (including me).
I stand by my initial opinion, yet I'm not so firm.
In fact, from a search I did on the web, the distinction is not so clear and there is no universal rule (no one can dictate it).
However, it is very common for other people, blogs, forums, events to divide the issue into just two sections: restoration and construction from scratch.
As I have already said, those who adopt this subdivision also logically include kits in construction from scratch.

Perhaps this interpretation can be useful to understand why they often write or say "construction from scratch" even when they refer to complete assembly kits.

Hi Chris - It was a kit model that I had previously built!

How did you know it was a kit Duncan? Was it a well known model?

I'm going to build a couple of plank on frame models but they are going to be scratch built.

Chris

The reason I posed the question is I saw a model at a model show and the description said it was scratch built. Looking at it I thought that is a plank and frame kit and therefore this left me a bit confused! My question has certainly generated a lot of comments!!
Thank you to everyone for your input.

I have been reading the remarks regarding Scratch Building.
I thought it was obtaining the plans then buying wood and other materials wood and other materials and cutting out parts and building the model.
I scaled down the drawn round parts parts of a 34" RAF Crash Tender to 28" and built it from balsa wood.
I thought that was scratch built.
But then buying premade parts to add on is this called kit bashing.
I presume this includes prop shaft's, rudders, cleats, spot lights etc.
I am apprehensive on anything that I now write and post on here on fear of offending on what I post. 🤞🤞
I am not a drafts person and wouldn't know how to start to let alone design a boat. So I would have to purchase a plan and build from that.
I have built several boats from kits over the many years I have been model boating but I wouldn't call them scratch built.
I do hope I have NOT offended anyone with my comments.

Greg, I’d agree with you about buying a plan say one of Gary Webbs from www.bearospaceindustries.com

Some folks do not have the drafting skills to do their own so buying a set of drawings is required. The person still must source the building materials, cut the parts, and build the project. It’s not a kit where all the materials are premoulded or vacuum formed.

So yes you are scratch building.

That is exactly my opinion scratch building is from scratch, sourci g your plans, doing the research, cutting your sourced wood and supplies and then outfitting the boat to finish.

You can scratch build subassemblies, but I like to call that "kit bashing."
😉

You are spot on Roy, that's exactly what I did. It's taking years to finish my "scratch built" models but at the start I bought ready to run powered and sailing models to get used to handling them, have something to use down the club and keep my interest going - in my case they were plastic, which provide their own and different interest, including doing a bit of club racing.

And better to learn on that type of craft than a more precious one!

Chris

I think I am with others who say a kit is not scratch building.
However, as a hobby we welcome anyone who shows an interest, be it in sailing ready to run, kit built or scratch built boats. 😉

Hi Roy,
I took the liberty of taking your text with me to the next club general meeting. I find it VERY fitting. You are expressing my wish.

‘To get new members to join clubs you have to be less perjorative about ability and encourage enthusiasm. On our railway track site we do driver training, as there are very few drivers who can first build there own locos.
I advise newcomers to model boating to buy a finished boat, preferably one that has been built from scratch and needs minor repairs.
This will set you up well for later.
Build the boat you want in the background, otherwise it may take a while and interest may wane.
I've noticed that you're in good company among model boaters!’

Thanks Roy 👍👍👍
bb Michel-C.

As has been mentioned the hobby has changed direction, most of us build models for ourselves and our own satisfaction.

As a club we have to be as inclusive as we can and accept the enthusiasm of new members. These days manufacturing companies are no longer looking for craftsman, so the schools no longer prepare young people for this.

However many of us have a yearning to make something, use our hands and the brain in between.

To get new members to join clubs you have to be less perjorative about ability and encourage enthusiasm. On our railway track site we do driver training, as there are very few drivers who can first build there own locos.

My advice to new people to model boats is to buy one ready to go, preferably a 'scratch' built one where small repairs need undertaking. This stands you in good stead for later.
Build the one you want in the background, because it might take a while otherwise, and interest may wane.
I have found amongst the model boating fraternity you are in good company as well!

Roy

Sorry Duncan, I forgot to paste the English translation.

I think Andy is right, but interpretations can be complex and subjective.

The ways of doing modeling are these:

1. Plastic ship model kits. In this case all the pieces have their own precise location and the steps are rigorous. It is more difficult to make a mistake. The skill of the modeler lies above all in the painting work (I have seen real masterpieces that I admire and that are unattainable for me) or even in making them RC.
2. Ship model kits with plastic hull (or resin but still ready).
3. Wooden ship model kits completely to be made but with complete projects, explanations and materials.
Here we can distinguish the classic ones or those of admiralty or arsenal.
Generally, a model completely in wood is more difficult to make than the plastic kit. Many steps are not well specified, much is left to the skills and inventiveness of the modeler.
There is no certain basic method for building the hull, which for many is too arduous a job.
4. Construction from a drawing and complete explanations but without materials. Let's imagine a kit used by another modeler; the material has been used but the drawing and explanations are still reusable.
5. Construction only with the basic hull design but without step-by-step explanations. In this case the modeler completes the model based on image research taken from different sources.
6. Construction of an independent project in which even the drawing of the ship comes from the modeler himself.

I think that construction from scratch in the strict sense (with a very restrictive interpretation) only concerns points 5 or 6.
However, there are schools of thought that divide everything into two macro areas:

Modeling built from scratch (which also includes assembly kits) and the restoration of existing models.
In this subdivision, the kit is still considered a construction from scratch if compared to the restoration.

It is clear that there are difficulties related to the scale, the type of ship, the static or RC construction only, the overall dimensions, electric or steam power, etc. etc.

Furthermore, you cannot be so restrictive as to consider the construction from scratch only the absolute self-construction of everything, of every piece. Even those who cut the wooden strips themselves (and do not buy them already cut to size) still buy the wood ready-made. You certainly cannot expect that the wood is obtained by cutting the trunks of trees.
With this (highly restrictive) criterion, you might think that you also have to self-build the electric motor, the ESC, the radio control. This seems a bit too much to me, which is why I believe that points 5 and 6 are a good compromise to reasonably define the construction from scratch.

I am saying something banal, forgive me.
Everyone chooses what they like best, the important thing is to create a good product but even more to have fun and share the fun with others.

I bought a set of plans, two sheets, and am building from them, scratch building. Kits, IMHO, are not scratch building!

Duncan, many are familiar with kits like plastic models where all of the parts are pre-made, only needing removable from sprues, and assembled.

Other kits (predominantly wood or mixed materials) require sawing, cutting, sanding, drilling, etc. to allow assembly.

A kit is a kit whether plastic parts or a stack of lumber and pre-printed or cut parts with instructions to follow.

Kits primarily have all the raw materials required included.

The word "scratch build" is reserved for a model that requires the builder to gather materials to make a model from plans (pre-drawn or scratch made).

I think what we see now in model boats could be defined as three major categories:
Scratch built
Ready to run
Kit
Now these three can and very often do bleed into each other to varying degrees.

But the short answer to your question as you pose it is simply NO.

Lew
Florida ⛱️, USA ♥️

Hi Duncan I think that question has become less relevant over the last 30 odd years. A kit of parts but perhaps not containing a ready made hull, still takes some talent to make a good model.

I used to administer competitions in our society and we had to re-frame the standards and requirements so that our 'imported' judges could refer to them and judge accordingly.

I re-wrote most of them to comply with what our members were doing. We have to keep up with the times.
It upset a lot of the 'engineering' group as they thought there should be some equality when being awarded a trophy to the time that building a loco would take.

There is merit here but I did ask how many constructed their own boilers, which are usually bought in and the argument over scratch building went quiet.

But I thought we are comparing apples and oranges! We did discuss kits v scratch building and separated them and associated trophies.

For model boats starting with a plan and doing the rest yourself might include planking, and do you buy ready cut planks? Probably yes so wood already prepared is acceptable.

Kits have improved very much with applied technology which speeds up the process.

There is another side to this and it is that we all need more income to survive in this modern world, compared even with 30 years ago. So time becomes a dearer commodity for all of us.

The real result is satisfaction in constructing and making a model of your choice. Research often shows the kit has had to be changed from the prototype.

An obvious one is the displacement of the model hull which will have been increased in volume to make a working model.

There are fewer judged competitions now because we want to see our models sailing etc. However, in the last years I noted that judges also looked for an 'enhanced' model built from a kit and marked accordingly.

So I think the term scratch built is getting obsolete with people just being happy to be able to construct a model anyway.

In my time I have seen many kits which have been started and although equipped with instructions, these have been beyond the owner of the kit and they have given up.

What does the finished article look like, does it perform, does it look good on the water? A well built model usually gets a crowd around it, so quality is there for all to see.

It is a bit like the word scale which has become to mean something other than a ratio of size. Scratch built suggests there has been a lot of effort put into the build rather than purchasing something that can be assembled and made to work in a few hours.

A good question Duncan, and often at the heart of many a discussion. Short of chopping down a tree and waiting for the wood to dry out, we buy most of the constituents for models, like glues and paints all ready for us to use.

Nice one,
Roy

I make my own plans, cut parts from various wood types, oak, mahogany, cherry, basswood, birch, some plywoods too. Planking and sheeting could be various materials too, but mostly parts are only purchased for sailing rigs though blocks, cleats, and other items can be handmade.

I think you can say it's scratch built if you build from available plans. I've gone a stage further and produce my own drawings but even so I intend using some commercially available parts and accessories to detail my models so I'm not completely scratch building and of course I'm using commercial rudders and prop shafts etc.

The accuracy of the description was more important when shows were more prevalent and models were widely entered into competitions which had different classes. So not so important though now. Personally I do have a problem with 3D printed models being called scratch built but as they say times are a changin'. If they were entered into shows I think there would have to be a different class but it's rather irrelevant now given the way the hobby is going.

As said, a kit build is not a scratch build.

Chris

Secondo me ha ragione Andy, ma le interpretazioni possono essere complesse e soggettive.

I modi di fare modellismo sono questi:

1. Kit di modelli navali in plastica. In questo caso tutti i pezzi hanno una loro precisa collocazione e gli step sono rigorosi. È più difficile sbagliare. La bravura del modellista sta soprattutto nell'opera di verniciatura (ho visto veri e propri capolavori che ammiro e che sono per me irraggiungibili) o anche nel renderli RC.
2. Kit di modelli navali con scafo in plastica (o resina ma comunque già pronto).
3. Kit di modelli navali in legno completamente da realizzare ma con progetti, spiegazioni e materiali completi.
Qui possiamo distinguere quelli classici oppure quelli di ammiragliato o di arsenale.
In genere, un modello completamente in legno è più difficile da realizzare rispetto al kit in plastica. Molti passaggi non sono ben specificati, molto è lasciato alle capacità e all'inventiva del modellista.
Non esiste un metodo certo di base per la realizzazione dello scafo che per molti è un lavoro troppo arduo.
4. Realizzazione da disegno e spiegazioni complete ma senza materiali. Immaginiamo un kit usato da un altro modellista; il materiale è stato usato ma il disegno e le spiegazioni sono ancora riutilizzabili.
5. Realizzazione solo con il progetto base dello scafo ma senza spiegazioni passo passo. In questo caso il modellista completa il modello basandosi su ricerche di immagini prese da diverse fonti.
6. Realizzazione di un progetto autonomo in cui anche il disegno della nave proviene dal modellista stesso.

Io penso che la costruzione da zero in senso stretto (con interpretazione molto restrittiva) riguardi solo i punti 5 o 6.
Tuttavia ci sono correnti di pensiero che dividono tutto in due macro aree:

Il modellismo costruito da zero (in cui includono anche i kit di montaggio) e il restauro di modelli esistenti.
In questa suddivisione il kit viene comunque considerata una costruzione da zero se paragonata al restauro.

È chiaro poi che ci sono difficoltà relative alla scala, al tipo di nave, alla realizzazione solo statica o anche RC, alle dimensioni totali, alimentazione elettrica o vapore ecc. ecc.

Inoltre, non si può essere così restrittivi da considerare la costruzione da zero solo l'autocostruzione assoluta di tutto, di ogni pezzo. Anche chi taglia i listelli di legno da solo (e non li compra già a misura) compra comunque il legno già pronto. Non si può certo pretendere che ci si procuri il legno tagliando i tronchi degli alberi.
Con questo criterio (altamente restrittivo) si potrebbe pensare dover autocostruire anche il motore elettrico, l'esc, il radiocomando. Questo mi sembra un pò troppo, ecco perché ritengo che i punti 5 e 6 siano un buon compromesso per definire in maniera ragionevole la costruzione da zero.

Dico una banalità, perdonatemi.
Ognuno sceglie quello che gli piace di più, l'importante è creare un buon prodotto ma ancora di più divertirsi e condividere il divertimento con gli altri.

I would never call a kit a scratch build.
Your original thoughts are correct in my humble opinion.