You have will try and find it tonight
Ian

"There was also a stern light fitted as a later addition just above the 93/94 numbers on stern"
I agree Elsrickle,👍 I'm sure I've seen pics of 93 showing that stern light.
Cheers, Doug

I think the top mast light is an anchor light and the one on the top of Cabin below the mast support bracket is a bow navigation light. There was also a stern light fitted as a later addition just above the 93/94 numbers on stern. Also cabin lights fitted inside.

Hi Ray.
Good to hear your making steady progress.
If you look through my build blog you will see that there's a white nav light on the top of the mast and also another on the leading edge of the cabin between the legs of the mast support.
Rob.

Hi Rob , Hope you are well construction is slow but progressive , had a thought about lights , apart from normal port / starboard navigation lights , what if any did the boat have any additional running lights and if so where were they positioned please many thanks Ray

Hi Elsrickle
Aha! That's why the dwgs looked so familiar!!😁👍
Cheers, Doug 😎

if you look real close under the tow hook, you can see the planking

It's a shame that these boats have their rudders as a push-fit into holes mounted right on the transom - makes them very hard to adapt for radio control...

Thanks Martin . that's a lot of advice - not sure about the heat gun as its a really funny type of plastic - don't think I have ever seen one of these boats without something warped. Great pity as its a really nice model. Will let you know when I try and fix it.

Hi Red,
Just found this on the net.

There are two approaches you can try for fixing warps in plastic. The first is to simply clamp the parts and adhere them with adhesive. I prefer the liquid styrene cement, which actually fuses or welds the parts as opposed to adding an adhesive to create the bond. Once so fused, they're nearly impossible to separate. Most of your alignment issues can be addressed this way.

Most warping issues for these models come when you cut it to allow access for your RC components. These are usually long cuts along the mid-line of the boat. It is common for the cut parts to see warping along the length, creating gaps in the seam that are unsightly and hard to address via the first method. For these, the solution is to mechanically force the part straight, then heat the plastic up to its Glass Transition temperature for a short time, then cool it off.

Polystyrene begins GT between 175-195° F (79-91 C) depending on its molecular weight, plasticizers, pigments and fillers. In order to straighten warped polystyrene parts, you need to get the plastic up to that temperature, allow it to settle in the proper shape, and then cool it back down again.

There are a number of ways to accomplish this. The safest one for small parts is to use hot water. Simply heat up a bowl of water in the microwave to something around 200F, allow it to cool slightly and then dunk your part. Once the plastic has heated up, it should become more malleable and retain whatever shape it's put into. Dunk the part in cool water to lock in the new form and you're done! You can also use your oven, which allows for precise control of temperature in a larger format.

Most sub hulls are going to be much larger than your bowls or oven, so you're going to need to use something like a hair blow dryer or, ideally, a heat gun. This takes some practice, as it's easy to overheat the parts and get warping and distortion, or even burning if you're not careful. Never focus the heat gun on one section for too long. Keep it moving at all times and use broad strokes so that you're heating up a large area. You'll see the part relax into the proper shape. Once it does, let it cool thoroughly before releasing your clamps and checking alignment. Repeat as often as necessary for a great fit.

Martin.

Hello Red
In the past I’ve found heating plastic suddenly has resulted in flat areas warping or distorting as the area intended is straightened. To get round this I twisted the plastic and held it in correct position with clamps etc and then gradually warmed with a hair dryer which can be moved away if distortion starts to appear

Hi Red,
This is were the skill comes in. And experimenting it could be a case of hot water on a cloth and work a small area at a time.
I have done this on a small plastic boat some years ago and with a bit of twisting and allowing it to cool before doing the next bit.
I know that there are many types of plastic around.
And as you said in an earlier post about not wanting to bin it if you don't have to.
If you do decide to try it I would like to know how you get on.

Martin.

Hi Doug That’s the ones I got through your help last year when I was renovating the old crash Tender.
Ian

Maybe poring hot or boiling hot water on it ?

Hi Martin - problem is the early plastic its made from is very unstable - probably make it worse - dont know if you have ever left a plastic kit on the rear shelf of a car in the sun - warps like mad - a Lancaster looked like a pretzel ! (think I was trying to make an Avro "York" from the kit for the local boy scout troop at the time as they used one to travel to the 53 Jamboree at Sutton Coldfield)

Maybe poring hot or boiling hot water on it ?

Martin.

"..I should not jump to conclusions, due to the lack of information maybe I should have researched before submitting my last post...."

Hi Martin - I agree with DG - we all do it from time to time . No need for apologies - you were asking the right question anyway.
Can remember reading an article on getting the warps out - for the life of me cant remember where - going through a lot of back issues at the moment - very confusing as the brain fades...........Was hoping someone else may have read it - Don't think using better half's hairdryer would go down too well - and the paint stripper heat gun would simply melt the plastic !

Glad to be of help 😊.

Hi Rob , I found this information very useful , bought the boathooks and they are just right Ray👍

"...Out of interest, there is currently such an RAF crash on eBay listed as Victory Industries vintage 1960's model toy boat Vosper RAF Rescue Launch..."

Indeed there is - at nearly £50. You can see plastic distortion of the hull in one photo, and there are no fittings with it.

There is one that looks to be in better condition, with most fittings and box, here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOSPER-RAF-CRASH-TENDER-by-VICTORY-INDUSTRIES-LTD-SURREY-WORKING-ORDER/202715426684?hash=item2f32c7ef7c:g:ihIAAOSwHk9dDgNU

That's got 5 hours to run, and has £16 on it so far...

"..I should not jump to conclusions, due to the lack of information maybe I should have researched before submitting my last post...."

Not at all! You quite correctly asked for photos and made a suggestion based on your experience. EVERYBODY 'jumps to conclusions' - you can't live without doing that. I do it all the time. Most of the time they are right - when they aren't it's an occasion for learning something. I, for instance, have never heard of the trick of putting things in the oven with a tray of water. Sounds like quite a good way to steam objects. So thank you for sharing that...

Hello DodgyGeezer
Out of interest, there is currently such an RAF crash on eBay listed as
Victory Industries vintage 1960's model toy boat Vosper RAF Rescue Launch twin p

Hi DodgyGeezer,
Thank you for the information.
I should not jump to conclusions, due to the lack of information maybe I should have researched before submitting my last post.
Thanks again.

Martin.

"...I am assuming that she is made using wood...."

Er, no. The boat referred to is the well-known ready-to-run toy marketed by Victory Industries in 1954. It was very successful, would be seen on many boating ponds in the 50s and 60s, and is still quite common on Ebay. See Phil Smith's excellent site tracking plastic models from this company - I have linked to the page with the Crash Tender. These toys were probably where the black-white-grey colour scheme first originated...


VIP (Victory Industries Products) also did a matching model of the 'Mercury' - a Vosper high speed yacht built for Stavros Niarchos in about 1960, and based on the Brave patrol boat class. Three gas turbines - 60kt plus. Still in existence, though now renamed 'Brave Challenger'... see https://www.philsmith.co.uk/VIP/1960.htm

These early plastic toys all suffered to a varying extent from warping over time.



https://www.philsmith.co.uk/VIP/1954.htm

Hi Red,
Can you post some photos of it .
I am assuming that she is made using wood, if so perhaps a gentle steaming and some clamps and weights.
I have heard of some people putting them in the oven on a low setting with a tray of water under it but they never said if it actually worked.

Martin.

Hi Elsrickle,
Those are the same drawings that I posted 6 days ago.
if I remember correctly Martin (Westquay) sent them to me a year or so ago to ask me to enhance them a little so we could decipher the text describing the paints used.
Thanks for blowing up the text 👍
It confirms as I had posted; decks, cabin sides and tops were all the same shade of grey.
https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp?cRange=BS%20381C&cRef=BS381C%20631&cDescription=Light%20grey
Decks non-slip, cabins smooth. No white anywhere. But if you like white - Why not?😉
Cheers, Doug

Not the same boat - but does anyone have any idea on getting the warps out of an old Victory Fireboat . The hull and rear removable roof are badly distorted . Seems a shame to bin it if it can be salvaged . Unfortunately the motor has been killed too. Easy enough to make a modern one to look the same though.

Found the photos I was looking for. Bit faded with age but hope they help with the colour.

The cowls could be rotated I made mine the same as the photos. Can’t find the paint details I had from vosper drawings. Am sure it was dark grey tops of anti slip and light grey side. The photos look like white buts think it is just the light. As far as I could find they never had white tops.

I do believe that all of the cowl vents could be rotated depending on whether 'forced ventilation' was needed below decks.
Further to the paint scheme, here's some information that I came across some while ago, I think VMW supplied it to me.
Hope that helps.
Rob.

Hi Elsrickle these photos are very helpful , firstly on the CAD drawings that come with the kit , the cowl ventilators are shown pointing forward , however the photos show them pointing aft also there is some conjecture of the colour of the superstructure , although they are black and white photos I think it clearly shows that the cabin sides and roofs are white 👍

have some old photos maybe help you from a previous build

Hi Rob , thanks very much for the information regards Ray

Hi Ray.
The boat hooks I used were 200mm long and I bought them on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boathooks-Set-of-3-200-Model-Boat-Fittings/173445968301?hash=item28622f71ad:g:jNEAAOSwx~JWE7FD
The Seller is Battlecrafts.
The Centre floor is slightly higher than the main deck and the door is slightly wider than the hatch cut-out in the roof.
I hope theses 'photos are helpful.
regards.
Rob.

Hi Rob , the information has been very helpful and much appreciated
I contacted Battlefields and they have 3 x Boathooks 1/24th scale 20 mm long your blog shows 2 x 25mm and 2 x 16mm did you extend Battlefields hooks or will 20mm be ok
I intend putting the floor in where the motor sits you show a door where the sliding hatch is , could you please let me know the dimensions you made the door and also the depth of the floor from the top of the bulkhead many thanks Ray

One of the difficulties of modelling small craft is that there were hardly two alike . Over 50 years ago I met Peter Danby who commanded a Fairmile C ML in WW2. He said at the time that his boat had as many weapons fitted as they could scrounge & "find"(liberate!). In the case of aircraft too there's a record of the leader of a Hurricane squadron having a RR Merlin from a Spitfire fitted to his personal aircraft. In times of war it seems people tend to use what they can find to help ensure their personal survival. Having seen first hand how RhodAF modified their aircraft and mine protected/oddly armed vehicles developed can vouch for that personally. So it seems that "poetic licence" when building a boat might be not that far from reality.

Some people though have pretty good memories and even after a long time can recall small details pretty accurately. Not saying I've got a fantastic memory but when I was 15 a friend and I went on board the ex RNZAF 64ft 100 series BPB HSL while she was pretty much in original condition apart from the 3 original Napier engines which had been replaced with 2 Grays GMs. I was impressed by the 'Powerboats' treads on the steps from the wheelhouse down to the ward room and always thought they were aluminium and a bit more oval than they were. I was pretty close with the script style though. Pic is of same steps 2 yrs ago when I went on board again (coamings etc totally altered but original stairs kept.) I wasn't too far out (they are a lot more worn now of course) and I only looked at them for about 10 seconds 50 yrs ago.

He probably thought you meant the C Class destroyer of the same name Swanee.
Launched in 1944 she spent most of her operational life in the Far East.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cossack_(R57)

Your Cossack F03 / G03 was apparently sunk in 1941!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cossack_(F03)
Cheers, Doug 😎

I would rely on photographic evidence rather than word of mouth. Many years ago I was building a model of HMS Cosssack, one lunchtime at work [I was an apprenticed joiner] I was carving the gun turrets. The joiner on the bench next to me asked what I was doing. When I explained he said that he had served on her. There were a number of things I needed answering, he answered all my enquiries. Some time later I happened to ask when he had served on her, oh I went out to Australia in 1945 came the reply, as she was torpedoed in the Atlantic in 1943 I didn't bother to make any further enquiries. Beware of eye witness accounts

Also Doug, the people who were on the crews have mostly 'dropped anchor' so we are running short of people to ask about these things. I'm trying to get some info on the ST here from BMPT (UK) but they have no info so far. Interestingly we found that a Vosper 35ft HS Admirals' barge and this BPBC ST were built in the same yard!? 1226 (wherever that is- Southampton I think) so finding correct info gets pretty difficult. I think scale can only be as accurate as the information available then it's up to 'poetic licence' who is really going to know? eg, if you only had a couple of blurry B&W pics you've got no show.
John

Hi John, I'm not denying that some RAF boats did have planked decks, especially some HSLs.
But not the two crash boats / Fireboats (93 & 94) which Ray's model is based on.
Some boats seem to have had a multitude of colour schemes over their service lives. Especially those stationed in the Med and tropical zones.
The service life of 93 and 94 seems have been pretty short in comparison so photos are nearly as rare as rocking horse droppings. All I can offer is the paint scheme 'as built' (or intended?) by Vosper.
In the end "Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"
Cheers mate, Doug 😎

Doug, to go with your no plankey deckey I found a few pics of decks on various smaller boats used by RAF. The white and grey H&Ds in tropical white look the best in my humble opinion. The 100 series HSL seems to be one of the only rescue boats with planked decks, - later boats seem to be all painted ply.
Almost everyone seems to go with the black and grey theme for most boats, (the RNZAF painted their 64ft HSL hull black with varnished coamings at one stage but soon changed it to 'Launch Blue' as black was not on (no reference to pool) apparently, - ended up white in the end with varnished coamings!

Hi John,
With all of those parts I could make something good LOL!

Martin.

Thinks - "Bluebottle my good man, bring me that can of sardines, some No 8 wire, a packet of baking soda" and a bucket of steam"
John

Hi John, wandering pics removed 👍
"How did you remove yours (pics) from mine??? those King Oscar sardines again , "
I don't give away ALL my secrets John 😉

Sardines?? Are you building some with sub-sub-miniature RC kit!? 😁
Cheers, Doug 😎

Here is a picture of a Miami built for my son 30odd years ago - I have it now but it was badly damaged in our last move. You can see the "planked" deck based on Ken's Miamis - before he told me he had removed the covering on the decks. Thought it looked good anyway and never bothered to change
Read that the Israelis mounted a twin Oerlikon on theirs so as son wanted a gun - thought that would do.

I've done your trick Doug, managed to get my pics in Nerys reply!. How did you remove yours from mine??? those King Oscar sardines again ,

Hi Doug, as far as I can tell from pictures and construction specs, a number if the larger HSLs ( BPC 100 series etc) had natural timber (selected African mahogany) decking as did our RNZAF 100 series HSL (pic). Smaller craft from what I can gather had ply decks with a covering (canvas maybe?) which were painted and non slip. The guy who is restoring Jaguar, a BPC 37'6'' seaplane tender here, mentioned removing woven rovings from the deck (which he is re skinning with 6mm Gaboon ply) - not sure if it had been glassed or had some sort of original covering. Pretty sure our launches were a similar colour to the RAF launches with white and grey (white was a sort of off white not stark white) as this ST was back in the 70s, (see pic of Jaguar which was still the colour the RNZAF boats were at that time) Also an excerpt from a 1950s RNZAF journal/publication mentioning British boats colours (probably the larger boats?). The B&W pic just gives an idea of the shade changes, (sides, deck coamings and roof)
John.

Quite right Doug, it was only the big ships that had laid decks. If I remember correctly, the aircraft carrier HMS Implacable only had laid decks right aft around the officer's quarters and they were scrubbed by a working party every morning. This all stirs my memory to a half remembered rhyme from my dim and distant past which went something like this :- ' Seven days shalt though labour, and then, if thou art able, thou wilt scrub the decks and holystone the cable.'
Fair winds,
Nerys

Hi Nerys, nice to hear from you👍
No news yet on the 'Peking' / 'Arethusa' I'm afraid.
Will let you know as soon as I hear anything. My 'feelers' are out 😉

Re RN wooden decks.
Yes you are quite correct as far as the larger vessels, such as cruisers and battleships / battlecruisers, were concerned. This had also occurred to me. But not for the 'little ships'; destroyers, corvettes and coastal craft etc as far as I know. And certainly not varnished as you say 👍 Cheers, Doug 😎

I don't know anything about decks on ASR launches or similar but have a strong memory of the laid planked decks on RN ships being scrubbed every morning. They were always bare wood to ensure non slip finish.