I agree Colin, I had a short involvement with the Doll's house world some years ago and was amazed at many of the things that were produced. The quality of some of the furniture was amazing, the little people inhabiting the dolls houses and all the accessories were fantastic. I'm talking about the stuff made by the Dolls House hobbyists, not the stuff imported from the Far East, though I must admit, some of that was good. Many of the people I met were absolute fanatics for their hobby and everything had to be absolutely perfect. I heard a stall holder once at a Dolls Fair being asked, 'do you have a half full glass of wine, my cook likes a glass after lunch? And all in 1/12 scale.

Cheers, Nerys

Doug, you'd be surprised what she can do in 1/12th, I wish I could get her to start 1/16th then she could make my fire boat crew.
I'm always trying to get her thinking smaller, but to no avail.
So I might have to build 1/12th scale boats.
Cheers Colin.

"My wife shares my stock for her dolls house models. "
Aren't they a bit over-scale for Caroline's 1/16 coffee mugs Colin? 😉
😎

Don't adjacent waves fit together Scout? 😁
Nah! Guess that would make the crew's eyes go skew-whiffy 😮🤓
😁😂🤣
Would look real cool though😎

What a swiz, the 7inch x 1/4 inch x 1/16th inch are really good.
I will ask my son when he next goes to check what they are using in Kidderminster and Worcester.
If they've changed I'll have to find a new supply as I've only got about 5 or 6 hundred left. My wife shares my stock for her dolls house models.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Colin Mc D's our way have started using stirrer sticks that have wavy sides so can not match them up
some B&Q's will sell you a box of 5000 for a £5-00p

I use lime strip in the appropriate width for all the deck planking I do. Maybe I'm wrong but I think to scale the caulking would be too small, so I just run a black fairly fine tip pen down the seams.
On big real ships, planked decks were never painted, always scrubbed. In the Royal Navy it was one of the first jobs in the morning to do that. On small ships, like my beloved Thames Barges, decks were painted, normally a palish blue and most skippers would keep a supply of paint on board to keep them looking smart.

Nerys

Phil if I have to plank small ares I use coffee stirer sticks which my son gets from McDonald's each time he goes he brings a handful for me. For the caulking between planks I use strips of art card from my local hobby craft shop.
Or if you have clean thin ply you could draw the caulking lines.
Either way a good quality varnish will keep it looking good for years.
Cheers Colin.

Brillant. Thank you. Once again you have all been very helpful.

While I'm here, As you can see in the pictures, the hull of the deck has been nicely "planked" (forgive me, but I have no idea what else to call it). However, the bits of decking that form part of the bits that lift off hasn't. I presume both were going to be planked to match the rest of the hull but my friend never got around to it. I have no idea how to do replicate this so any ideas/suggestions would be great.

Phil As you said earlier you may have a leak on the prop tube if you do take all the paint of you will be able to sort it out from both sides
Brian

Phil, in all my restored boats 20+ I always go back to wood before coating with ezekote and glass cloth before repainting.
Never had any problems doing it this way, and some of my boats are 60+ years old.
I just take my time and remove the old paint with whatever means it takes.
Mostly hand sanding to avoid excess dust.
Perseverance and patience are the most important parts to Good restoration.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Phil,
Just to through my hat in the ring.
I would sand it down to the wood or as near as possible.
That way if there is something hiding under the paint you will be glad you caught it now instead of later down the road.

Martin555.

Hi Phil The problem I see isn't now it may be later when you get the new paint on. Will it lift in spots. Then you start again. If you can clean the hull back to wood now you know the surface will be ready to finish with z-poxy and not lift latter. Do you have a heat gun to help strip the paint.If you leave the paint use z-poxy to cover the paint up.I have used both in rework for older boats. Back to wood and sanding out the bad spots and then finishing Have not had a problem with either boat.
Rick

Hi Phil,
So far so good👍
If the remaining paint is sound then leave it.
Sanding any further may start weakening the hull where the wood is already exposed.
Ask me how I know 🤔

Resin: If you are going to resin the hull then don't hold back, do the whole thing.
Go the whole 'packet of rashers' 😁
If you just cover the bare wood then you'll end up with a patchy surface which will haunt you all through the painting and finishing process!

As far as colour scheme is concerned you have choices depending on which pennant number you want to model and where she served.
White in the Med, e.g. Malta, use white primer as well, black in home waters; e.g. Inverness, with standard grey primer. See attached pics.
You're right about the starboard door - should be a ladder!
Have fun, cheers, Doug 😎
http://www.rafboats.co.uk/rttl2.html

Well, I've spent a good few hours on the hull and this is where we are at. I'm halting working at this point basically until I can hear what you guys think and make sure I'm heading in the right direction. Basically, I've been, very carefully, sanding the hull back to remove the loose paint that the gold lining had caused. Some of the paint, mainly around the bow and water line came off fairly easily. However what you can see left on it, especially the grey above the water line is very difficult to sand off. So the question I have now is... Do I Z-poxy just the bits of exposed wood, Or give the whole thing a coat. Or would you even recommend carrying on sanding the hull right back to start afresh, even though the paint thats left seems pretty good and doesnt appear to be going anywhere.

On a side note I've also filled in the door on the starboard side which shouldnt be there and also started with some minor detailing of the deck.

Brillant. Thank you again everyone for the replies. I'll let you know how I get on in due course.

hi there Phil

In theory, it would really be better if you could go back to the bare wood. That gives the Z-Epoxy a good surface to adhere to without any interference from shall we say flaky or loose paint. Also, the Z-Epoxy would penetrate the first layer of plywood skin and toughen it right up and it would possibly amend any soft areas in the plywood. If you leave paint on, you are relying on the paint having a good bond with the plywood and then relying on the Epoxy not having a reaction to the paint as well.

So best is to try and remove as much of the paint as possible.

I have a feeling this will be a sort of old lead based paint. So, you could use some chemical paint stripper but be very careful - obviously painting a small test area of the hull at first and - this will enable you to see if this works. If this does work, obviously strip the hull back and then rinse the hull off with warm, clean water. Dry the hull, rub it down with a light sand paper and then apply the Z-Epoxy.

There are plenty videos on You Tube showing you how to use Z-Epoxy if you are unsure. But, you can always ask here on the Forum and we can all chip in with our ideas to help you along.

Phil, if you clean up the area around the propshaft entry end and rough up the shaft tube, you can then re-glue using a slow cureing 2pack epoxy. And yes it will be okay with Zpoxy.
Cheers Colin.

Firstly, can I just say many Thanks to everyone who has replied. What a brilliant forum this is. So many helpful people want to help. A real pleasure to be part of.

RHBaker, Thanks for your suggestion but sadly that is way too much more than I am planning. As I say I want to keep as much of my friends works as possible so replacing large amounts of hull is a No No. My priority is to concentrate on making the hull watertight when the motor is running, give it a repaint into white livery, update some of the electrics as discussed before and finish off the deck with detailing and masts etc etc.

HI Dave976, Thank you. I will see about fitting some washers and lubrication and hopefully that will help.

John, Thank you very much for your detective work and plans. When you say "No matting is required", what do I just do with this Zap Z-poxy? Just paint it on, leave to dry and sand back? Does this have to go on bare wood or can it go over existing paint like, the hull sides or bits I've missed when sanding? I did think about that Sand N seal but if you recommend this Zap - Z poxy then I'll give this a go instead.

Thank you once again Colin and Martin555. It's probably a stupid question but if I dig out some of the existing glue to fix with two-part epoxy, is this compatible with the Zap - Z poxy (or Sand N Seal) which I'm going to then cover the bottom of the hull with?

All good suggestions.
As this vessel was never made with a single screw, originally triple and then twin, why not rebuild the keel with fresh wood and convert to twin screws?
Have just completed a similar model, but using a GF hull. With twin screws it has good performance and stability.

Hi Phil
Looking at your pics it is clear that there is water entering via the prop tube on one side. There is evidence in the form of staining on the motor bracket, which is absent on the other motor bracket. There is also evidence of water damage in the forward compartment on the same side, which suggests over time the water is seeping through the bulkhead from where your puddle is collecting
. Capillary action is dependant on shaft rotation which would explain why only one side is affected. It could also be that that prop shaft and tube are worn or need lubrication. Washers and lubrication will be your easiest and quickest option without resorting to structural repair, which I suspect is not required. A piece of dry paper towel under the prop shaft whilst running in water should identify if this is the source of your leak. Run the motors in both directions for a couple of minutes to be sure.

I do enjoy a bit of detective work - I believe that this hull was constructed from the Vic Smeed plans. What gave it away was that there was a number written on one of the frames which corresponds with a number on the plan for that correct frame. Also, there are 2 support blocks at the stern for the rudder posts which are also drawn in on this plan.

I thought that this was a Veron kit - but - now after further investigation it strongly suggests that it was from the free plan which I used in conjunction with other material to build my model.

See attached - so therefore if we look back at the leak problem I am now wondering if there is a crack along the keel which is hidden by the paint. My method would be to sand the paint all the way back (removing all the paint off the bottom of the hull) and once the hull is nice and clean and wiped down with acetone & give it a coating of Zap Z-poxy finishing resin. No matting is required.

John

Phil, Martin is certainly thinking like me, I had an old Sea Commander that did the same, there wasn't any obvious way the water got in the paint was immaculate and the inside looked good, it puzzled me for ages, so I put some water inside and hung it in a sling from a beam in the garage. No water escaped till I ran the motor and then I found water where the prop tube exited.
I cured this by drying out for a few days then I made up a 50/50 solution of Ezekote and poured it in and went through the same procedure again, once the liquid showed on the outside I allowed it to dry again.
After a few days in a warm room I decided to do a test in the bath, even with extra ballast on board no leaks after an hour with the motor running intermittently changing to reverse and back again.
5 years on and still no sign of leakage.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Phil,
I would be tempted to use a two part epoxy adhesive like Araldite.
First i would cut the area a bit deeper so that the glue has somewhere to go instead of just lying on the surface because when you rub down the surface you will be back to square one.

Martin555.

Hi Martin. Thanks. If I do find a crack or split, What’s the best way to repair it? Some kind of expo resin?

Hi Phil,
Strange,
I am now beginning to think that the hull has a joint were the bulkhead /frame is.
It may be opening up due to the vibration of the motor/prop.

If so when you sand back the Hull then hopefully you will find it.
The prop shaft looks well sealed altho if you have a joint in the Hull sheets right at the point were the shaft exits the Hull then that must be sealed from the outside first before you seal it on the inside.

When i zoom in on photo two it looks like the shaft tube exits the Hull well before were the puddle appears.

Try looking to see if there is a Hull sheet joint around that area.
You will also have the keel joint i might be coming in there.

You may have to scrape some paint off to see it.

Martin555.

Hi John. Brillant, Thank you very much.

Hi Martin555/ Dave976, Many thanks for your replies. A few more pictures attached of the puddle which obviously gets progressively worse the longer it runs. As you can see the puddle, which appears almost immediately after I start running the propeller is a good way away from the end of the shaft. If let run long enough, a puddle appears in the same place but on the other side of the bulk head. I'm not sure what the resin channel is for as the prop shaft seems to enter the hull underneath the bulkhead. I've look on the underside but there doesn't seem any obvious signs of cracking or splits. Do you think I am wishful thinking in a coat of Sand N seal will cure this? As I say it only appears when the motor is running.

Thank you Colin. I will add washers to my shopping list.

Hi there Phil,

Thank you for the comments on the boat. The hull bottom paint was Humbrol Brick Red number 70 with a coating of satin varnish over the top of it.

The white was Humbrol 130.

The fittings I made them basically myself - however, I know Battlecraft do a lot 1/24 scale fittings. A lot of them can be adapted for this model.

It isn't too bad to drill into the hull - the way I normally do it - is to cover the hull with a scrap of masking tape, mark off the positions of the holes on the masking tape and then with a small pin drill, drill through first and then gradually open the holes up with slightly bigger drills and a small round file to finish off.

If you draw on the position of the portholes first on the masking tape that gives you the advantage of keeping them in line. Old golden rule MEASURE TWICE BEFORE YOU CUT OR DRILL 😊 and I still get it wrong :-)

Here is a link to various size portholes.

https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=brass+port+holes&PR=-1&TB=O&ACTION=Go%21

John

Hi Phil,
Is it possible to take a closeup photo of were you are getting the leak.
You can point to it using a bit of tape with an arrow marked on it.

Martin555.

Hi Phil,
You do need thrust washers between the prop shaft and locking nuts, they protect the bearings on the motor but more importantly provides a good seal between the prop shaft and bearing whichever direction the prop is turning. I suspect the water you are seeing is from the motor end of the prop shaft and is running down the outside of the prop tube to the lowest point, try putting some paper towel round the shaft to see if this is the case.

Phil, I use thin nylon washers on my vintage boat prop shafts.
Both ends ,and adjusted to give approximately 5 thou end float. So that when the boat is travelling forwards the washer acts as a thrust washer and seals against water ingress.
Cheers Colin.

Hi John, Wow, that's stunning. The finish is exceptional. May I ask what colour you used for below the water line? Are any of your fittings like the Anchor etc etc available to buy anywhere? I love the port holes but there's no way I'm skilled or experienced enough to start drilling into the hull. I wonder if "simulated" ones are available anywhere? Maybe like etched ones that could just been glued on as a representation.

Thank you again to everyone else for the replies. I would like to keep it as original as possible and retain as much as my late friend's work, but as already mentioned, to retain the x8 D batteries just isn't practical for me. I've now tried the Bobs board with power, and although it "kind" of works, its sparks a lot and is very intermittent. So this will definitely be replaced. I don't know it its relevant but the fuss wired into the existing system is rated 5Amps? Am I right in thinking the new ESC will take care of all that? I must state, although I wish to upgrade the electrics , nothing I do will be irreversible, so it can all be put back to how it was should the need arise.

A quick question, can I apply "Sand N seal" over the existing paint once its had a rub down or does it all need to come off? Or should I just apply it to the areas where the wood has been exposed?

Hi Martin555, Yes this is the first model boat I have undertaken. I've built a few O gauge Brass/Nickle silver but never anything like this before.

The leak has me a little concerned as it doesn't seem to be coming from "inside" the prop shaft (the bit where the tube ends, the shaft emerges and connects to the motor , that's more in the middle of the boat - Does that make sense?. It seems to be coming from the area where it enters the hull in the rear compartment? But as I say it only appears when the prop is running.

Dave, the arrangement its Prop, Locking nut, Prop shaft, Locking nut, Universal joint thing that connects to motor - No washers either end.

Let me just say Thank you again for all your help and I look forward to reading further advice/replies.

hi there

I know everyone is saying and suggesting leaving the electrics as they are. I would agree, however, it is 'old' technology. There is a Bobs board speed controller which is ancient technology and whilst it is still good for very small amperages and I have one or two models myself with them in - but - you are running 12 volts. I think, personally, you are going to be verging on the limits of the board for amperage. Also, the weight of 8 batteries is going to be some weight, I mean if you are going to replace them with the old Eveready batteries or similar it is going to cost you a small fortune. The rechargable ones are only 1.2 volts per cell - not the old 1.5's. So, you are going to have a drop in voltage which will therefore result in loss of speed.

So to go with your original idea of changing the electrics to a modern day version may pay dividends. As well, as has already been suggested it sounds as though your prop tube has dried out - as previous posts have said this needs to be addressed with suitable lubricant.

Okay, for your white hull I believe your original RTTL hulls were painted gloss white for the overseas versions - but - after time salt air and etc., would flatten the gloss off to make it look like a semi-gloss or matt. I painted mine with Humbrol matt white. Here is a photograph of the one that I built.

Hi Phil
Glad to hear the hull is sound and with your proposed plan of action should result in as good as original with lots of sanding between coats.
As regards the prop tube leak I agree with other comments already made. What is not clear is the actual set up at each end. Should be prop, locknut, thrust washer then the reverse at the motor end. It is possible the shaft and or bearings have worn, if you can feel play when moving the shaft vertically to the tube this could be an issue. I always remove the shaft carefully in any old model I acquire so I can inspect the bearing areas. You need a very smooth bearing surface with little or no play for best results. 3in1 oil and a soft cloth will help remove any surface rust but do go gently. Grease/oil mix in the prop shaft will help stop water ingress and will need at least an annual inspection and replacement. When fitting the last washer/nut/coupling there should be a small amount of lateral play between the washer and bearing, Rizla cigarette paper used to give about the correct gap. The effect is caused by capillary action so is more noticeable when the shaft is turning in one direction. I have changed from right to a left hand prop on a single prop model, doesn't work with contra rotating twin props where a proper stuffing box at the motor end is required.

Super boat, as my main interest is vintage boats I would keep it as original as possible and use it with its existing electrics if they still function.
I have boats from the 1950's that still work fine, the only thing I had to do is rewire as the old wires were suspect.
I hope this helps you decide on its future.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Phil,

Correct me if i am wrong but is this the first model project you have done ?

I would be tempted to use the equipment that is already installed, that is providing it all works ok.
No point in spending money if you don't have to or is that me being tight LOL!!

You say it develops a minor leak where the prop shaft enters the hull.
Do you mean between the wood and the outer shaft tube ?

If so when you rub down the Hull see if you can dig out some of the glue from around the outer tube and then re-glue.
You could also do the same on the inside of the Hull and re-coat with paint/varnish.

Martin555.

Hi Phil I would remove the prop shaft check the stuffing box for grease if the boat is as old as you say may need to clean inside the stuffing box and put new marine grease in.
Rick

Hi Dave976, Thanks, Yes it is very well built. I just hope I can carry on the good work. I'm led to believe it was stored in the loft for many years which obvously isnt ideal. Ive had it in the bath today for a long period and it remained completely watertight. Ive also tested the motor with a external power supply and that also works fine. However when the motor/propeller is running, it develops a minor leak where the prop shaft enters the hull. Any ideas why this could be and what can be done about it?

Thank you everyone. Here are a couple more pictures, one showing where the paint has pealed off. The gold water line looks like its some kind of thin tape and a small piece at the bow has come away, taking the paint with it. Obvously the whole lot will have to come off when I sand it back, hopefully not taking too much more paint with it.

My plan so far (No idea if its a good one so please please let me know if its not,) is to replace the Bobs board with a 15 amp Mtroniks electronic speed controller. I was also thinking about replace the 8x D batteries with a 8.4v NiCad battery. Ive ordered some bits from Mac mouldings but Im still missing a lot like the Anchor winch, Anchor, life rafts etc etc. Any ideas who sell suitable versions?

Then my plan for the hull is lightly sand it back to get a good key and see how much bare wood shows through. I was then thinking about using Deluxe "Sand N seal" before undercoating with Halfords White enamel primer? For the two top coats, does anyone know fi the White Mediterean colour was Satin or Gloss. Also any help with what colour below the water line would also be very helpful. Ive never used any of these products before, I'm just going on what Ive read other do, so as I say, if Im heading for disaster, please tell me.

The box structure inside suggests its one of Phil Smiths designed Veron Kits. If it is I suggest you clean off the paint a bit to check for any problems - those had sealed off compartments under the floor and on the sides - you definitely don't want water in there. Be careful

I suggest you float in the test tank for an hour or so to see that the hull is watertight. Depending on where the model was stored it is possible the wood may have shrunk. Giving it a good soaking will identify any problems. That said the overall construction look very good and it has not had an IC engine messing up the inside which looks clean and solid so hopefully the hull will be watertight and no re-sealing may be necessary. Advice on re-sealing can be sought if required.

Hi Phil,
Welcome to the site.
It looks like you have a nice project to do there.
I would use Halfords spray Primer then have a good look around on the site and see how other members have done there's.

Martin555.

Looks to be a good boat. Good luck with refit and repaint.
Rick

I recycled one of these all the rope boxes at the front had been ground off full of runs in the paint work it was a retirement present from his wife for a chap who did three tours on one when he was in the RAF the colours are the colours they were painted if the paint is flaking is it all over or just one place so could be rubbed down and repainted a picture might help. If you put the RAF roundel on the bow do not put the one with the yellow outer as these were rescue launches only
He said that there were rails along the sides and standing orders said they were not to be removed but they took them off and they fitted behind the rails on the side of the cabin they had a way of letting the boats know if any senior officer was around and would do a highspeed test out to sea fit the rails back then come in as he said it was hard handling a target along side with the railings in place
There is a book "sailor's of the RAF" you will need to get it from a library it shows several different views of the launches
hope this helps Brian