Alessandro,

Do you think QUESTION OF THE DAY is listening in on our conversations?😜

Hi Ross, no, I'm not referring exclusively to static display models (in a static model, no element has a real function, of course).
I'm referring to dynamic models, but they reproduce various types of sailing vessels, certainly not racing or racing sailboats, as I've already said.
My opinion, of course, is based on my personal experience.
The last two RC naval models, but especially the last one, were able to sail without the need for shrouds and stays (I don't have backstays).
I can say this because due to a positioning error, I had to cut all the lower shrouds (I have sixteen lower and eight upper ones) and redo them from scratch. At that point, I had already installed the complete sails. Without the shrouds, the masts had no problems.
Of course, this is my choice and is debatable, but I've found more advantages than disadvantages.
If you look at my model, it seems like the shrouds and stays are doing their job because they're taut enough to make it appear so.
They're actually stretched just right to be realistic, but they contribute very little to the tree's shape.
The cross-section of the tree spindles is to scale and isn't large at all. If you want to know the exact diameter, I can measure it.

Hi Alessandro
If by SCALE you mean STACTIC DISPLAY ONLY. then yes, strong standing rigging is not needed. A perfect scale sailboat could not operate due to the physics of sailing. For the small racing sailboats, to be able to correctly adjust the mast and sails can be the difference between winning and losing a race. For a large model boat, to have a mast so strong that it needs no support, it would be so heavy as to badly upset the balance of the boat

Ciao Ross.
A clarification, because I don't want to be misunderstood. I'm not saying that standing rigging shouldn't be used. I'm just saying that in scale models it doesn't serve the same function (or at least serves only a minimal purpose) as it does in real ships. As for my ship, removing it wouldn't make any difference in terms of functionality. Clearly, for racing sailboats and large-scale models, the situation is completely different. For your model, I can't say how essential the standing rigging is. That's a question I'm asking you.

Good morning Alessandro😁

You speak of modelling and standing rigging. You say the standing rigging is not required for a mast in model sailing boats. I would like to qualify that statement. In model sailing boats, FOR STATIC DISPLAY, ONLY. Even the boats in the club, the small RG65 & DF65 (65cm long) have adjustable rigging. Some of the very experienced skippers of these small vessels can watch a boat when it is sailing and say how to improve the performance of the vessel by adjusting the rigging (know in english as TUNING the rigging) Roy has helped me work out the forces involved in the Bluenose, under construction. The masts alone could not handle the forces, without shrouds and stays, even if the masts are stepped to the keel, and not just the deck. The FOREMAST on my vessel has a slight curve to it, given the tensioning of the shrouds and stays, the mast will be straightened up under tension. I believe Roy posted earlier in this thread that the BOBSTAY on his square rigger, made from chain (not welded, as per our earlier discussion) broke up under the load. So, a model boat for display only, doesn't require standing rigging, CHEERS😁

Hi Ross.
I don't actually rely on standing rigging to hold the masts in place. In real boats and ships, this rigging is essential for holding the masts in place, but not in modeling.
In my case (but I think it applies to all modeling), both the mainmast, the foremast, and the bowsprit (and, if I had one, the mizzen, too) are held firmly in place without the need for standing rigging.
The standing rigging is kept under tension only for aesthetic reasons.
I don't rely on standing rigging to hold the masts in place for three main reasons: 1) it's not necessary (I didn't even glue the masts; they were wedged into their forced slots and secured with a cotter pin); 2) excessive tension can deform them (I've seen many bent unnaturally and get worse over time), while insufficient tension is completely useless; 3) I've noticed that temperature changes affect the ropes much more than I imagined. A rope that's taut at one time of year and in a certain condition becomes slack at another.
I recommend securing the masts well (even without gluing them) so that they hold in place even without any fixed supporting rigging (in modeling, unlike in real life, this is possible). Then add the rigging, paying attention to symmetry and the correct tension of the ropes, primarily for aesthetic reasons, but without over-tightening them.
Only if I had steel wire and real metal turnbuckles (instead of dead eyes) could I consider using the shrouds, stays, and backstays in a real way.
This way, I could adjust the tension of the rigging, adapting and modifying it as needed.
For very small ladders there are no real turnbuckles.

Ross and I were talking about chains and here's the question about chains.

When the longest answer makes you laugh you know it's wrong. 😀

I didn't know stud links were kinky

I think you made the right choice, Ross. There are ultra-strong ropes, but 10 kg is more than enough.

Alessandro

Not a problem. Given Roy's problem using chain and your information today I am thinking just use it for ornamental anchor chain, only. As you say, given the size of the chain I doubt it is welded, just bent. I found a picture of the Bluenose BOBSTAY. Predicably it is 2 wires. The fishing wire I will be using has been tested with 10kg weight per wire. Now that is the current Bluenose 2 as of the date of October 1st 2025, but close enough.

Hi Ross, forgive my intrusion, but I wouldn't rely on model chains (regardless of scale) because, in my personal experience, they have very little tensile strength.
They're purely for aesthetics; I don't assign them any function.
This is easily explained because the links in model chains aren't welded but are joined only by bending.
But be careful, I repeat, I'm basing this only on my limited experience. I've always bought chains from Italian manufacturers that make them for static modeling and therefore only for aesthetic purposes.
However, it's easy to check: see if the links are welded together or not (of course, such a job would be more expensive for a manufacturer).
You can also test the tensile strength of your chain yourself by hanging increasing weights.

Hi Ross thanks for that I have put it in the trolley and at £1.24 I will add in my next order as P&P was £3!
Roy

Roy,

At ALI EXPRESS (chandler to the model ship world), Mine are 4mm links, but you can get anthing you want

Hi Ross, I think I will rely on the wire or cord with the chain a cosmetic attachment. Also I don't have any more of that chain! 😀
Roy

Hi Roy

Yes, I saw the line beside the chain. Do you think you have to upgrade to wire??🤔

Hi Ross if you look to the right of the chain there is a line but I think it should have been tighter as the intention was to thread the line through the chain, this was on a bowsie but may have loosened.

My model is to 1 : 35 scale. The hanging part of the chain is 5 inches long.
Roy

Hi Roy

That's REALLY close to the chain I have, that I'm planning on using. Now you have me Really nervous about it.
Is this one of those scaling problems where the wind is Increasing by the SCALE of the model? ie. on a 1/24th scale model, a 1 km wind will be 24 km wind, in scale? In your case your chain STRENGTH drops by a factor of the cube root of your SCALE

Ross

(hide a stainless steel fishing line down the centre of it for strength?? I tested the 0.2mm plastic coated 7 strand wire I have with 10 kg load)

Hey Pat

I don't have a CLUE when I'm on my Square rigger, but maybe I'😁m just being tacky

I thought it was the real one. So it's normal.

Hi Ross, picture of Broken chain. The links are about 3mm across. It was a lot stronger than a more scale like chain and this was all I had. Testing it for strength was not going to help.

Roy

Hi Pat it is no good you trying to baffle me with science! I am a thicko with a few nautical bits stuck on.😂😂
Roy

Hi Ross, I asked myself the same question.

Hi Roy, thanks for this information.
Over time, this forum (and partly the "question of the day") has inspired me to search for the exact English terms for nautical elements.
Since the usual translators were completely inadequate (imagine that the term "deck" for us is "ponte," but "ponte" in Italian also means bridge; another example: "mast" we translate as "albero," but "albero" also means "tree." Imagine if I wrote the tree on the bridge, it broke) and even the Italian-English nautical dictionaries weren't always helpful, I resorted to images and drawings.
If I see a drawing of the complete sail system with captions in English, everything is simpler and certainly unmistakable.
The problem is remembering it because there are so many specific nautical terms, but I'm slowly getting there.
It helps that I know the rigging and sails of boats and ships very well. There's certainly a big difference between a simple sloop and a full-rigged ship.
The English terminology that differentiates between "manovre fisse" standing rigging and "manovre correnti" running rigging was one of the first things I learned, along with sheets and shrouds, but thanks for reminding me anyway.
As the ancient Romans said: "repetita juvant."

Roy
On a square rigger both sheets and tacks control square sails sheet got from the clue of the sail aft where as tacks go from the windward lower corner of the sail forward hence the name tack.

That’s one I got wrong last time

Pook🐱☹️🤕

😎

Roy

I have to ask. What are you using for chain, that it snaps?

Ross

Hi Aless... The fixed rigging is called the 'Standing' rigging and the rest is mostly 'Running' rigging. The ropes to control the angle of the sails are mainly called 'sheets' and these days have colour coding interwoven into the rope to help identify them.

Halyards are the ropes that haul up or put items in position. Could be flags or sails being hauled into position as in fore and aft sails.
Then there are clewlines buntlines and leechlines and footropes.

Ropes are measured in 'size' by their diameter so a 1 inch rope is about 0.3 inches thick.

It goes on......Any more contributions are welcome.

The bowsprit takes a lot of pressure and often has a chain from the tip going down to a low part of the bow. The forestay goes from the end of the bowsprit to the foremast.
On my sqaresail sailboat if the wind gets excessive the chain snaps, which it is at the moment awaiting repair!

Roy

From the description in the question, I understand (except for the last part, which is still a mystery) that they were referring to a fixed rigging we call a "strallo".
From my research, the closest thing to our term is the answer I gave.

My answer was a stab in the dark as what I know about sailing ships could be written on the back of a postage stamp, so I'll have to admit to luck on this occasion.

Oh no another one wrong again. Was doing great at 100% now I dropped to 80%. Learning a lot and will have to keep with correct answers and wait a month or two. Anyway lots of fun😊👍😬

BOWSPRIT GUYS are to the SIDES of the bowsprit to prevent the bowsprit side to side movement.
The BOBSTAY is the line that attaches from the bowsprit to the keel, to prevent the bowsprit from being pulled up and back from the force of the forestay
The BOBSTAY could be said to be preventing the foremast from shifting aft by supporting the forestay, but BOBSTAY wasn't a choice.

The answer given as correct FOREMAST STAYS would include FORE STAY, FORE TOPGALLANT STAY and BACK STAY. A bit misleading. . .

Understanding 19th-Century Ship Rigging
The correct answer is B. Backstays. In the context of 19th-century full-rigged ships, backstays were the component of the standing rigging primarily responsible for preventing the foremast from moving aft under the strain of the headsails and fore-topgallant staysail. Backstays are ropes or wires that run from the mast to the stern of the ship, counteracting the forward pull of the staysails and preventing the mast from being pushed backwards.

We talked about this sail for a long time, because I wanted to know its English name. Only Jumpugly answered correctly. Later, Pat confirmed this term with her very interesting questions and answers.
Then at least one AI question about this sail appeared in the "question of the day" section.
I realized that the naming of English sails depends greatly on their function and position.
Perhaps it would be helpful to answer today's question correctly to think about the other name you give to the Spanker sail.

Note the longest answer was wrong!
Roy

Definitely remember this question not long ago, unfortunately I couldn’t remember the answer! Took a guess and got it right.

I have dropped a few lately but wright today😁 got a way to go to clear a red mark
Philuk👍

I think we have had this before but I couldn't remember the answer. Maybe I should have Googled it 😁

It's true, Steve, it was a unique story that also says a lot about human nature.
A highly metaphorical and symbolic painting was also made of it.
There are also paintings and engravings of the Mary Celeste, but there's no comparison.
Géricault's painting is still in every high school art book.

Ok, Alessandro about the Medusa raft. I had to do research on that...
150 people set adrift on a makeshift raft and after 13 days of cannibalism, murder and some weaker people being thrown overboard, they were then rescued. But only 15.😐😣.

This makes the Mary Celeste a mystery but a much less disaster.

Same here, the question went right over my head, so I resorted to the longest answer. Turned out to be a good choice!

I'd like to say I understood the question and answer, but at I don't I used my universal which answer is the longest system.

Jump, took a look at Dumas site, great but they don’t ship to the UK. Really a pity.
Ed😭

And for what it's worth, Dumas is running their usual "holiday" exclusives. Always a fun look as sometimes they surprise you with a a bargain...sometimes.
👍

https://www.dumasproducts.com/

Starring Bela Lugosi...

Yes, Steve-S, the story of the Mary Celeste is the one that struck me the most when I first read it as a young man.
In some ways, it's also the one that impressed me the most and made me think only after the tragic story of the Meduse raft.

I agree Last In First Out. although now it is FIGF (first in gone forever). I find I start writing something and then all the words I expected to use go away and hide!

Roy

Roy,
"I am running out of brain area to take in new facts and I may have to forget something to make space!"
I know the feeling🙄
Curiously, rather than the FIFO system used by computer systems as we get older our brains start to work on a LIFO system🤔
Cheers, Doug😎

Hi Stephen,
Re the submarine question of 4th December-
Despite various complaints please do not change anything.
Answer C was correct, see my post to Roy.
The question simply needs to be read and interpreted correctly.
Admittedly some knowledge of Naval Operational Requirements and Operational Areas helps😉
Cheers, Doug😎

Hi Doug fortunately I gave up smoking a long while ago!😊

The 'hundreds' was a quote from Wikipedia.
My initial doubts about Stirling powered subs was based on production stopped just over 10 years ago but after further digging was actually because of the payment conditions. Resolved a while later.

However, I accept that I was wrong, but happy the Stirling engine is used for subs. The Scotsman associated with its design may not be so happy to know that it is used as a weapon. Difficult to differentiate a method of keeping the peace from a means of active defence.

We have several model Stirling engines in our Model engineering club and many years ago we had a display for models which rotated around and driven by a hot air engine.
Many years ago one of our members designed a hot air engine entirely made from old storage discs and powered by a light bulb, it was displayed at a Model engineering exhibition maybe 25 years ago and because it was bright and shiny and moved it attracted much attention.

I am running out of brain area to take in new facts and I may have to forget something to make space!😁😁😁
Roy