Flying jib? Wearing ship?

Second question

In large Square Rigged ships it is well known that a lot of sea room is required to either Tack Ship or Wear Ship.

What is the manoeuvre called that allows a large square rigged ship to change tack with limited sea room - I guess the equivalent of doing a 3 point turn on a road ?

Hi it is going to take a week and 2 days before your score can improve.
Roy

My first question of the day:-

On big sailing ships most notably topsail schooners and t'gallent schooners what is the name of to triangular sail that has it's foot on the uppermost yard and comes to a point at the mast head

Bloody hell another question right but no move up the ladder - am I getting too addicted to this board ??

What is a Flinders Bar?
Michel-C

I guessed Flinders bar as I used to help out with swinging the compass for aircraft while I was in the RAF.
Never heard of the other so I looked them up in Wikipedia and it says that Kelvins spheres or balls are also known as Quadralantral correctors.
Seems AI was not aware of that!
Roy

You all ready for my question of the day ?

Artificial intelligence has oriented itself (perhaps thanks to a brilliant human mind that controls and manages it) towards a topic that we had started to discuss just yesterday.

It is a very interesting topic, even if quite specific, of nautical science.

I am very happy that the questions are increasingly pertinent and the answers precise.

The topic of magnetic deviation and the corrections that are made to mitigate them is, in my opinion, fascinating and useful.

I am not an expert but I know that, in recreational boating, the compensatory expert makes compass turns (at sea in an area called a polygon) and notes the deviations. He corrects them by acting directly on the compass and based on known references.
Then note the residual deviations (which must remain within certain limits) on a table. This table will be consulted by the commander of the naval unit to change the compass north to magnetic north, algebraically adding the degrees of deviation to those detected by his compass. Each compass has its own table of residual magnetic deviations. If there were more than one compass on board, each one has its own table because the positions of the compasses are different.

I am also interested in it from a modeling point of view. In fact, I will have to build a compass.
I am looking at several photos of the time.
I prefer to build the pieces knowing the function of each element (for example the typical lateral spheres) rather than proceed blindly.
Even if it will be difficult in 1/60 scale, I will try to build the compass with the detail of the mortar, the binnacle, the Flinders bar and the Thomson spheres.

Chose helping magnet bar and got it wrong today. Well tomorrow is another day and hopefully I will do better🤨🙁

I missed Pat's question yesterday but I have learned of a new term "Spanker" I didn't want to google it just in case the Google police came round and arrested me 😂

OK let’s call it a night for tonight we have been at it all day - you going to join in our little group Roy ?

Wrong! It's the last drop in a pink gin glass.
Correct. Too easy that one..

Is it not secured to the Bitts? I agree anchor rope.

Just walked in, tired, spent all day on the Severn River Valley railway. Good weather and good company not a boat in sight!
You lot have been chatting away, 71 emails waiting for me.
Roy

Bitter end is the very end if a rope but more correctly it’s the end of the anchor cable when they were made of rope rather than chain where it is secured in the cable locker

Ok, a quicky as I am a bit tired this evening. Where would you find the "bitter end"?

But the bear?

Doug alone knows both the answer and the reason?


Doug you'll have to spill the beans sooner or later.

Come on Nick your turn to ask a question 😉

Don’t worry alessandro I think you are doing very well

Thanks a lot Pat and Nick, I also have to memorize the term "driver".

Manovering under sail taking the stern of the ship yatch or dinghy is in fact called gybing in small boat sailing
However, the correct term is call wearing ship !!
The purists will say a gybe is an uncontrolled wear.
First time I came across this term was when sailing a montegue whaler many many years ago

Well you are both correct on the name of the sail it is most definitely the Spanker - normally has top sail above it
This sail is as Nick points out is sometimes call a driver as on some ships it can be a very big powerful sail.
This sail becomes very important when manoeuvring under sail alone

Please reread because I have made some translation changes (it's hard for me) in the meantime.

Hi Nick (also applies to Pat), yes yes very good, I really think that "spanker" is the correct term to translate "randa". This type of trapezoidal sail takes the name of "mainsail" in gaff rigs (such as schooners, for example), where there are no square sails.


As for the jibe (or jibing), I agree with you that it is the correct answer but we italians distinguish between two terms: "abbattuta" and "strambata" (unfortunately in English they are translated in the same way by Google).

By "abbattuta" [voluntary jib] we mean the change of tack passing through the downwind gait (running). So from the slack on port tack to the slack on starboard tack. In this case the mainsail is hauled in and brought back to the center and the jib is hauled in before passing it to the other side.

By "strambata" [involuntary gybe] instead we mean an involuntary jibe (very dangerous) in which the boom suddenly passes from one side to the other because it was not previously held by hauling in the sheet.

A "virata" [tack ?] instead is a change of tack that passes through the dead angle, therefore from a close-hauled gait on port tack to a close-hauled gait on starboard tack (or vice versa).

When we change direction, without changing tack, we use the terms "orzare" ["luff" ?] and "poggiare" ["bear away" ?].

We luff when we bring the bow closer to the direction of the wind (we pull the wind and in this case we haul in the sails). For example, we luff when we go from downwind to broad reach, from broad reach to beam reach, from beam reach to upwind-close hauled (without changing tack)..

We bear away when we move the bow away from the direction of the wind (in this case we loosen the sails). For example, you bear away by going from a bowline (close hauled) to a beam reach, from a beam reach to a reach and from a reach to a stern reach (without changing tacks).

Well it looks as though ex HMS Bristol is off Santiago on her way to Turkey

Hi Nick

1. Right one wrong - BTW it's gybing !!!!

I did give you a clue by saying think big ship stuff

Hi Alessandro

Yes the sail I am talking about is the one pointed towards in the first two pictures and as far as I am aware it has the same name despite the rig of the ship and the number of mast - that is assuming it has some form of square sails
Sorry obviously i have not got a clue what it would be 9n Italian but when you post an answer I will try Google Translate - please forgive my inadequacies.
Good luck

Part 2 gibing, hence the sudden movement of the boom that can alter your haircut if you haven't got your wits about.
Part 1, I am guessing Spanker aka driver...

I will answer the last question first as it’s easiest - I mean to change tack - ie change the side of the ship the wind is blowing onto by taking the stern of the ship through the wind
Just going for dinner so will answer the other half in a short while

Hi Pat, in relation to your questions, I ask you for some clarifications:

a. Is the rig a classic three-masted ship rig (foremast, mainmast and mizzen)? So we exclude, brigantines, schooners, brigantine-schooners, barques, ships with more than three masts, etc. etc.?

b. Which sail do you mean at the stern?
In Italy the last sail aft on the mizzen mast is a "randa" but I don't know how you translate it (some time ago there was a discussion about it, without certain outcomes, but only many different opinions).
I mean the one in the first figure and the second one I inserted. Is this the one you mean?
At the bow instead there are three triangular sails that we call "fiocchi", more precisely: "fiocco", "controfiocco" and "trinchettina" (possibly also the "granfiocco"). In short, those with the tack angle on the bowsprit.
I don't know if you mean those (figure three).

Do you mean maneuver or points of sailing? With the wind at your back you call it a "run", it forms 180 degrees to the direction of the wind (figure four and five).

Here is a handy web site if anyone wants to go exploring 😁

https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml

Nick think a bigger vessel than a dinghy lol

Pat, I know. In part 2 you need to mind your head on the boom! I will wait awhile before answering proper..

Hi Alessandro. I am pleased I got it right without having to Google it. I just remembered a BBC programme, many moons ago actually showing it while at the pole. It might have been David Attenborough but not sure. It was just lurking in the back of my mind, which is full of all sorts of useless junk. According to my wife, so is my garage workshop 😂

My question of the day - a two part question -

a. What is the large fore and aft sail called on the after mast of a square rigger called.
b. What is the Correct term for for maneuvering a sailing vessel taking the stern through the wind

Alessandro I wished I could speak Italian as well as you speak English 😀😀😀

"I know why but you would take away the pleasure of guessing from someone else. Let's wait a bit."
That's why I posed a question instead of giving it away Alessandro.
Curious as to what answers we will get.😉
Ciao, Doug😎

Hi Doug, very right.
I know why but you would take away the pleasure of guessing from someone else. Let's wait a bit.

Excuse this:
""""P.S. the bear did not eat the ant """"
I didn't understand it.

Hi Pat, thanks for the reply.
It wasn't to be right. Since this is an English language site (mostly visited by members of English speaking nations) I have an interest and pleasure in learning the correct terms. The technical ones are distorted by normal translators.

So I am down to 6th position today having got today’s question wrong with 5 other people 😭😭😭😭

Alessandro's bear is white of course😁
So now my question is:
Explain why.

Prof Jim Al Kalali demonstrated it well in a Geo documentary😉
with an ant 'walking' on a globe of Earth.
Cheers, Doug😎
PS the bear didn't eat the ant😁

From Mr Google

Magnetic variation on a chart, also known as magnetic declination, is the difference between true north and magnetic north, expressed in degrees and minutes, either east or west. This variation is crucial for accurate navigation, as compasses point to magnetic north, while charts are referenced to true north. The amount of variation changes based on location and time, and is typically found on the compass rose of a nautical chart.

So it might be a terminology thing in a different country :-)

So I guess we are both correct

Well, this question reminded me of that famous riddle that everyone knows by heart.

Those who don't know it are lucky because it's really fun to try to solve it on their own.

An explorer, after setting up his tent, sets off on a mission. He first travels five kilometers south, then, relying on his compass, he travels another five kilometers east.
But he still wants to explore and changes course again, this time the five kilometers are north and to his great surprise he discovers that he's back where he started. He sees his tent and a bear rummaging around in it.
The question is:
WHAT COLOR IS THE BEAR.

Hi Pat, in the Italian manuals the "declinazione magnetica" (which I translate as magnetic declination) is, as already said, the difference between true north (geographic north) and magnetic north.
The "deviazione magnetica" (which I translate as magnetic deviation) is the difference between magnetic north and compass north.
The "variazione magnetica" (which I translate as magnetic variation) is, instead, the algebraic sum of the deviation and the declination.

I am sure of the concepts but I cannot be 100% sure of the terms, for this reason it is better to hear the opinion of your compatriots or at least of English-speaking members of the forum.

If you tell me the precise terms I would be very happy and grateful.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_deviation

I thought the difference between true north and magnetic north was called variation and the difference between magnetic north and the north your compass pointed to was called deviation (not to be confused with strange sexual behaviour lol)

WELL DONE SIMPLESAILOR, YOU ANSWERED EXACTLY!


I waited for someone to get the answer right; but I would have waited for the other part of the world (which usually sleeps when Europe is awake) to read and think about the question.

The definitions were right but only SimpleSailor indicated correctly and precisely where you are if the magnetic declination corresponds to 180 degrees.

Perhaps not everyone is clear on the reason so I will explain why.


General preamble.

First of all, as you have already rightly said, the magnetic declination is the difference between the geographic north pole (true north) and the magnetic north pole, measurable in degrees.
This difference varies from place to place. In fact, nautical charts report this value.
To calculate it, simply make an algebraic sum, considering that if the magnetic north is east of the geographic north, the declination is positive (we add the values), but if the magnetic north is west of the geographic north, the declination is negative (we subtract the values).
To complicate matters, the magnetic north pole moves over time (see image 1), so the year and the degrees to be added for each year up to the current year must be indicated on the map.
In some places, the declination has very high values, and in some places it has very low values ​​or even zero (see images 2 and 3).
In image 4, the blue cross indicates a point (one of many) where it is clear that the magnetic declination is zero (the magnetic north corresponds to the geographic north).



Specific explanation of the actual question.

The only place where the magnetic declination corresponds to 180 degrees is the line (found in the Arctic) that joins the magnetic north pole to the geographic north pole.
To understand this better, look at figure 5. The point indicated by the yellow cross (on Baffin Island, just to give an example) has a certain declination value expressed in degrees.
In the next figure (image 6) the point indicated by the red cross has a greater declination than the previous one (it seems obvious to me even without indicating precise values, just look at the angle formed by the two black segments).
Finally, looking at the last image (number 7) you understand that the point indicated by the green cross (one of the infinite points of the red line that joins the magnetic north pole to the geographic one) has a maximum magnetic declination, that is 180 degrees.

SimpleSailor 1500 points!, very good job!

P.S. Of course, the compass does not indicate magnetic north (unless it is a boat without any iron) but compass north. The difference between compass north and magnetic north is called magnetic deviation.
But that's another story.

Hello sailors of the rough seas !!!
Sometimes, as a landlubber and mountain boy, I don't understand the questions, then I guess by luck!!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bb Michel-C.

Hi Alessandro. Just noticed your question. Could you be standing between the geographic and magnetic north pole.

Oh dear got that one wrong

Pat, Antarctica IS a landmass. Albeit icebound (mostly).

😎