Well Roy, I like to clean the lid and rim of each paint can/tin each time of use to ensure the lid seats properly and forms a good seal. This does not prevent a skin forming on the paint, but it makes me happy ! 😉

Hi all enjoying the thread. I use up all my small amounts of paint when preparing. SEveral of my model boats if snaded down to the wood can reveal a rainbow of colour.

Several of my boats have had a dozen or more coats and this stabilises and hardens and even 10+ years later just need a wipe down. Do not forget to paint or varnish the inside to prevent wet air creeping in.

It also sometimes helps to decide what colour suits best. Keeping old brush on paints can be difficult. I have come to the conclusion that paints dry out and go hard if there is more air to paint by volume.

Bashing the lid on the paint down helps and also storing upside down which prevents air coming in assuming no paint leaks.

Any other hints and tips?

Roy

Before going any further with the deck and rigging, felt that the hull should be "faired" and given an initial coat of paint. In fact it ended up with three coats of primer (yellow), with some fine filler used in places, rubbing down between coats. The final overall colour will be white, with a red oxide under the water line. A initial "dusting" of white confirmed there is no conflict between the two paints.

The roof is finished - using stainless steel for the handrail. Have also started to shape the lee boards. There is a need to think about other details, shroud fixing etc. There are a number of additional "wooden" parts that can be seen on photos of "real boats" which need to be added.

The underside of the hull needs priming and sanded smooth - think that will be the next task.

Hi Andy, you are doing a great job.
It would be nice to see the Lee boards radio controlled.

There was a very large Dutch Barge at a ME exhibition many years ago. I think it was called Green Dragon.
Groene Draeck Queen Beatrix's royal yacht. It googles to find it.

Roy

Thanks for the interest. I’ve not given up on adding a control to the Lee boards but at the moment it’s not on the “must do” list. I’ve struggled to find examples of other Dutch barge models, so it’s good to hear someone else has built one.

I’ll look at painting and finishing the cabin roof, then the next job will be the Lee boards.

Andy, you are awesome.
Looks perfect already . . . Congratulations!
BB Michel-C.

Hi Andy for some reason I have missed your thread on Dutch barges, which I regret as it is very interesting.

Before RC was everywhere when I lived in Hampstead I saw a model Dutch barge which had working Lee boards. These were automatic and were controlled from a mercury switch, I think there were 2 of them.

As the hull tilted to one side or the other the switch would turn on, and an electric motor would drop which ever lee board it was using a chain.

Did you give a thought to just having a servo on its side directly coupled to the lee board?

Roy

The cabin now has a roof. This lifts off and then its possible to lift out the door and cockpit, which should provide good access to the inside of the hull.

The handrail along the edge of the roof needs to be added but I'll need some 2mm dia brass rod and will then add a further 4 supports each side.

A bought a pack of three capacitors, so will have the option, currently working on cockpit floor, door and finishing rudder.

Hi Andy, great progress.
I am always in favor of both fuses (and I think this is understood well) and capacitors.
Capacitors are not always essential but they have no contraindications so I am always in favor.
Will you choose the "top" configuration with three capacitors on the brushed electric motor or the minimalist one?

Been a bit distracted recently but have now wired the RC system together and decided how it will fit in the boat. Still need to add a fuse and capacitors for the motor but it does all work.

Made some card templates for the pieces of deck, before making and fitting the final pieces.

Hi Andy, I wouldn't give up engine control.
It would be better to buy a low-cost (relatively low) radio control with at least six channels.
The radio control you have can be used in the future for a boat that requires fewer channels. How many channels do you have available.
Last year I bought a fairly cheap six-channel radio control.

Thanks
The next step is to get the rudder and sail servos in and working, along with the motor control. That will use all the controls up on the Rx/Rc. Not using the motor control would make room for a servo/winch for the Lee boards. Decisions ?

Unfortunately I don’t subscribe to Facebook etc but thanks for the suggestion

The Association of Model Barge Owners website is closed but there is a private group on Facebook. I betcha many of your questions could answered by them.

Hi Andy, if I understand correctly, you want to move the lee boards. If I understand correctly, you want to do it using a winch.
It seems like a great idea, but I suggest another method: Instead of using a winch (the ones used to wind the sheets) use the servomechanism normally used to control the rudder.
In this case there is no need for the lee boards to be weighted to fall back down. In fact, the complete movement in one direction (lifting the board out of the water) and in the other (lowering the board under the water) will be guaranteed entirely by the servomechanism.
The rudder servo has a small excursion (no more than 90 degrees) which is sufficient for your purpose I think.
You can decide whether to put one for both lee boards or one for each lee board.
In the first case you will have to build a system to transfer the movement to a common axis that connects the pins (fulcrums of the movement) of the lee boards.
In the second case you could attach the servos directly or with a minimum of gears.
I prefer the simplest solution, one servo for each lee board, attached directly. However, I don't know if it will be possible for you because you could have difficulty hiding them. In that case, if you have to position them lower in the hull you must perhaps use a movement transmission system (for example with gear wheels and belts or just with gear wheels).
Lifting the lee boards with a winch could instead be a problem because as far as I know they make four or six complete turns. Even just four complete turns could be too much for your purpose.
However, it is a problem that can be solved.
I hope I explained myself well.

Thanks Alessandro. Slightly to my surprise - I've struggled to find other models of Dutch barges - a few YouTube clips and that's it. There is more information about the building of model Thames Barges, which are similar in design to the Dutch version. These models seem to use a rudder extension and additional keel, I have designed/built the hull to incorporate a bolt on keel, just in case. It would be nice to avoid both of these and allow the use of the lee boards as on the full size boat.

It could be possible to use a sail winch mounted sides ways, so the lee boards could be raised and lifted, on a push/pull arrangement - but the boards would need to be weighted to ensure they dropped as the line from the winch was eased. The other option would just have them adjustable and made so they could be fixed in a down position.

All ideas to be considered.

Hi Andy, it's coming along very well.
I hope you don't need to use the green/yellow acrylic extension, I hope you can steer with the original rudder without the extension, but you did very well to anticipate that.

Here's a couple of photos with the outer gunwales fitted and topsides trimmed, which shows the true shape of the hull.

A little bit of progress. The rudder is fitted, along with the servo. The green/yellow acrylic extension is easy to remove but should improve the rudders performance, it can be shortened if the current size proves to big.

The topsides are made from 1.5mm thick plywood. The line of the gunwale has been marked out and this will be glued in place, before the excess plywood is trimmed off.

Currently thinking about where/how the two sail winch arms will be fitted - the plan is to use two HiTec 765's. The roof of the cabin will be removable, as will the the cockpit - but have yet to decide how to achieve this.

Making mistakes - the greatest learning tool?

Colour? White initially, then perhaps red oxide or black under the water line. Think the rubbing strake will black, but that’s all along way off. A few coats of white and lots of rubbing down will be needed first.

Next task, the rudder and operation via a servo.

I'm with you on this one Andy.
The beauty of boat modelling is that if you make a mistake or want to change the boat you can. And at only a mere fraction of the cost of the real thing, and cheaper than a round of golf ! 😉

Very good AndyB2, you can consider yourself satisfied, the hull turned out well.
You did very well to reinforce it with resin, I'm curious to see what color it will be.

So I'm glad that Dutch barges do not have a varnish finish, such as a classic carvel built yacht. Some sanding and Isopon P38 meant the hull was reasonably "fair". However, the planking is only 1.5mm thick, so added a layer of glass fibre tissue with West Epoxy. Once cured this was sanded smooth, with some smaller marks filled with P38, before a final sand. An initial coat of thinned varnish has now been applied. The plan is to give a few more coats before another fine sand. The hull will be finally painted - not certain what colour yet.

Hi Andy, every modeler has some jobs that they prefer less. I especially like the first part, the project and the hull, but there are parts that bore me a bit, especially the repetitive ones.
If you don't want to do the second planking, don't worry, this is already very good.

Hi Rossm thanks for that video on planking, watched it twice all grist for the mill!

I use cocktail sticks for wood nails (trenails) with a bit of PVA glue on them and hammer them in. Mainly on mast repairs and they work a treat.

Also bamboo skewers are a good source and cheap as well.

Roy

RossM, thanks for sharing the planking video. Very informative and interesting. Len

I assume a second layer of planking may smooth things out but it seems reasonable at the moment and with some sanding and filler it should be ok. To be honest, I found the planking a little frustrating and not my greatest pleasure - so one layer will have to do !

Thanks for the video Ross - interesting but the challenge on a Dutch barge (or similar) is the bow, where the planks have to bend round 90 degrees, as the bow has the cross-section of a football, rather than a fine cutting edge, as found on a classic J class yacht.

If it makes you feel any better, I had a lot of fairing and filling to do

IF you are interested BLUENOSE II PLANKING

Hi Andy, but this is the first planking.
Aren't you going to do the second planking?
In the modeling field, the second planking is a very useful custom.
All you need to do is sand the hull you have already made well and then place other strips.
The work will be much easier and can be much more precise by having a complete support and gluing surface.

The idea of ​​brushing the inside of the hull with epoxy resin is still excellent, in my opinion.
I would have done this operation after completing the second planking.
You will get a much more resistant and waterproof shell.
For the second planking you can use very thin strips.

Have managed to finish the planking - not a perfect result - but the next task will be some filler and sanding, on the outside, to try and get a reasonably fair hull shape. Have coated the inside with some West epoxy, this should fill any gaps between the planks - chalking - and give improve the strength.

I'd be interested to see how the planking is completed on the full size version, as it seems they use fewer but wider planks.

Using a motor? - Certainly useful to beat a falling tide when coming into a drying harbour.

H Andy just think of getting back on time for lunch.
I have a fishing boat with a rarely used prop. My thinking was that a coarse pitch propeller would be less drag.
regards
Roy

Originally there had be no intention to include a motorised prop, the plan being for just a propeller on a false shaft for pure aesthetic reasons. It is a sailing boat and I’ll admit to having no interest in powered craft.

However, as we should always be interested in learning new things, the decision was made to add the auxiliary power source. The actual prop size is currently 40mm, which just fits. I look some advice and the motor size was recommended, as was the specification for the speed controller. The motor/prop will only need to move the boat slowly when there is no wind, but that is along way off yet and we need to remember it is a sailing boat.

You can still hire sailing cruisers on the Norfolk Broads that do not have a motor. Such joy and thus skill needed.

Six Planks - however the challenge is yet to come. As the bow rises in the front third of the boat, the space between the flat bottom and side rubbing strake increases. This will create a problem - which will need to be filled with some additional tapered planks. Unless anyone else has some ideas?

Hi Andy, I saw you put a brass bar on the keel.
Am I wrong or did I get it right?
Is this an out-of-shape addition or does it replace a wooden part?
In any case, excellent choice.
I used this trick too.
In the ship I called Francesca I simply added steel bars.
I went outside the shape I had planned, but only by a cm (so it's not noticeable).
In the schooner I am finishing building I have instead refined the method.
The trick is this: When I designed the keel I created a pre-cut part.
After completing the hull planking, I removed the wooden part and replaced it with a brass bar.
Afterwards I continued the planking in mahogany strips on this part too.
This way you can't see anything and I don't go out of shape.
In any case, both methods (one faster and more hasty, one more accurate) allow me to have excellent lateral stability without resorting to the bulbous fins that protrude under the keel.
Personally, I don't like those fins under the hull and they don't allow me to navigate in shallow water.

I must have missed this post in the past but have now caught up. What a shapely craft. Some of these older sailing boats have such beautiful lines, and I love to see detailed photos showing the model under construction. For the size of the boat I think you will find the motor and prop quite adequate. I have similar sizes on one of my yachts which is somewhat larger, but speed is not important, rather the ability to move under power. This has transformed the enjoyment of sailing the model making it an 'all-weather' performer !
Good luck with the rest of the build, and enjoy it ! 😉

Started the planking - something I have no experience of. The barge hasn't the fine lines of a classic J class yacht, so the planks for bow/stern do need some pre bending. Have completed the top two planks, not perfect but plan to add a coat of west epoxy, before sanding smooth. The planks are visible on full size/real boat, so am happy for some planking lines on the model.

Decided to add the flat bottom, from 1.5mm ply, an initial paper template helped get the shape close, before final fitting. Plan is to then add two lines of planks at the bottom, before completing the rest.

Hi Andy, congratulations on the excellent work done so far; The idea of ​​putting an auxiliary engine is a great idea.
Not only will it be useful for the absence of wind but also to facilitate turns if the rudder is not large enough.

Are you sure the motor is powerful enough for the propeller you put in?
I don't want to be wrong but it seems a little small to me.

Furthermore (this is not a criticism but a suggestion) perhaps you should put a fixed joint (not cardan).
This way you can align the engine perfectly before locking it onto the supports.
Then (once you have found the perfect alignment) you can also choose to use another type of joint.
The perfect alignment will reduce vibrations, noise and consumption.

I wrote you my opinion because you still have time to decide. I hope I explained myself.

Decided to add a motor, as auxiliary power, have no experience of such things but have bought a speed controller as well. Its only for when the wind totally disappears and there's also one on the "real boat".

The plan is to have an additional/detachable keel, which will be bolted through the brass tube. Still thinking about the linkage for the rudder but will get it fitted before any planking is added. However, there is a slot in the underside of the rudder, so this can be extended while sailing, which should increase its control.

After some distractions - have now made a start actually making the barge. The next stage is some "fine tweaking" of the frames, so there is a nice smooth line along the chine and gunwale. Its not until you get the basic frames in place, do actually realise how tight the bow is curved. Have tried some "thin" wood/planks as a test and things to seem achievable.

However, some decisions are needed about the rudder, this will need a removable piece to be used while sailing, which is quite easy to achieve but its the lower rudder bearing (pintle) that needs some thinking about. There is length of brass, 1/2 inch wide, that will form the bottom of the keel. This will add some weight low down and keep the wooden keel straight, as well as protected. It will form part of the lower rudder bearing.

Some progress :
Obtained a copy of the "Dutch Yacht" plans, having scanned these, it was possible to "double" the size, so the planned model should be 37 inches long and 12 inches beam. The article in the 1975 issue of model boat is quite short but interesting, as is a book "The Dutch Barge" - more historical but does provide some information.

Just need to start - what could go wrong ?

By the way John Pottinger is still around and always pleased to hear from anyone building from his drawings. I think he was on Model Boat mayhem last time I heard.
Roy

Thanks
I’d had a look at the Thames barge kit, Veronica, by Sarik.

Have ordered the drawings MM1203, £15 with postage, so worth a look. A model of twice the suggested size, should be ok. I’ll have to learn how to scale up!

There’s even some copies of the June75 magazine on eBay !

A quick check of Sarik plans reveals MM1203 line drawings of a Dutch barge by John Pottinger and featured in Model Boats magazine June 1975. Plan is for a 18.5 inch hull but easily scaled up by a print shop.
Roy

Hi all, there is not a single straight line on a Dutch barge! Green Dragon has been mentioned and quite a long while back, maybe 30 years I saw a very large model of this on exhibition, about 6 feet long. Built by Dave Taylor who also founded the Scale Sail Association. I am afraid that is long gone now as it died with Dave, he smoked too much and it got him early on in life, but I have all the association newsletters still.

Most model Thames barges sailing in competition are to half inch to the foot scale which gives a hull about 48 inches long. Yes you do need a sailing keel and this makes them very heavy.
The barge boards do not give enough effect to prevent leeway but can easily be made to operate.
I first saw this about 60 years ago with a Mercury switch controlling the movement. When tilted to one side allowed that Lee board to lower. As they have either one or the other down the switch decided which one. But with RC a lot easier to control now.

The leading light in AMBO some years ago was Richard Chesney, we first met when we were queuing to receve medals at the old Model Engineering exhibition about 1990. He produced a very nice booklet on everything you need to know about making model sailing barges.
I have a copy it is complete but maybe a little dated now. I am happy to pass this on to someone provided they will make the contents available to all interested.

Duplex Craft the fore runner of HFM plastic model kits, best known for the small yachts 575 and 590, produced a smaller 30 inch hull and barge boards of the barge Venta, plans for this are available from Sarik. It makes up into a nice model.

I have seen the Billing kit William Everard sail but it is a bit small. The full size Will Everard does sailing excursions in the Thames and around the East coast of England. It had to lose the Everard family name and the new owners retained the name 'Will'

I was on one such trip on the Thames a few years ago with my daughter and took the wheel for nearly half an hour coming back from the Thames Barrier. Very slow to react so need your wits about you.
There is much written about Thames barges and many were saved and there is nothing like seeing one in full sail in a good wind.

regards
Roy

Thanks Hermank - that's very helpful
much appreciated

Alessandro amigo italiano
You are an early bird 😂